Block refund from flight school

Flyinhigh728

Flyinhigh728

Well-Known Member
Hey guys,

A few months ago I purchased a block of time at a smaller flight school. I was very hesitant to pay a large amount of money up front because of the horror stories I've heard, but it was a very good rate. I ended up flying once with the school. Due to life circumstances beyond my control, I was not able to continue.

I wrote to the owner and explained in a very friendly manner the situation. I said I would pay him full price for the hours flown and kindly asked for the rest of the money back. He ignored my first email completely. He then responded to my second attempt saying they had a no cash refund policy. I did not sign a contract at all and was not aware of this.

Am I in the wrong for wanting to get my money back? It is a pretty substantial amount. What actions can be taken?
 
Does he have a dog?

I know it's too late for this situation but never just hand over money to anyone without a full understanding of how it will be handled AND have something in writing. You're not wrong for wanting your money back.

Take a witness and go in a see the guy face-to-face. Ask to either see or for a copy of his money handling policy; don't call and ask because by the time you show up to get it, he'll have one written. He will need to produce for you his "policy" concerning money.

Depending on the amount in question, you might seriously consider an attorney; he/she would be better to ask for and review the "policy" in question. You may find one that will work the case for a reasonable fee. If the amount in question isn't worth THIS effort, then chalk it up to experience.

Also, tell us all the name of this place.......


And, if all else fails, find out if he has a dog..........................;)
 
dustoff17 said:
Does he have a dog?

I know it's too late for this situation but never just hand over money to anyone without a full understanding of how it will be handled AND have something in writing. You're not wrong for wanting your money back.

Take a witness and go in a see the guy face-to-face. Ask to either see or for a copy of his money handling policy; don't call and ask because by the time you show up to get it, he'll have one written. He will need to produce for you his "policy" concerning money.

Depending on the amount in question, you might seriously consider an attorney; he/she would be better to ask for and review the "policy" in question. You may find one that will work the case for a reasonable fee. If the amount in question isn't worth THIS effort, then chalk it up to experience.

Also, tell us all the name of this place.......


And, if all else fails, find out if he has a dog..........................;)
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Good advice, but here's something you might think about. If you do call him prior to "visiting" to see his money handling policy, and he produces one upon your arrival, you've just won the court case.

A contract that was written post-facto, having not been signed and agreed to by both parties, to cover one party's ass in a disagreement would surely be tossed by any judge.
 
fholbert said:
Publish the flight schools name and location.

When Google robots capture this info he'll be out of business soon. Then again if he can't afford to refund your money he's on the edge of bankruptcy anyways.
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Wow. You don't even know the entire story, yet the first thing you want to do is damage a business that you don't even know. We know one side of the story and that is it. In the south, we have a saying..."you catch more flies with honey than vinegar" and this is no different. Put yourself in that guys shoes if you had a business.

Without a contract stating that there was a refund policy, like in any other situation, even hiring an attorney (which is probably going to cost you more than the amount you want anyways) isn't going to get your money back. Would you consider delaying your training, and maybe he would be flexible about honoring that time you paid for at a later date? Maybe he would consider allowing you to donate that time to a program that would use it and honor that as a tax deductible contribution you could deduct in your taxes later? Maybe the EAA Young Eagles program or Giving Kids Wings? It is an unfortunate situation, but it is always best to talk to the owner in person, and just be friendly about it, not defensive. You can't be the first one with buyers remorse, or who changes their mind for whatever reason.
 
Avgirl said:
Wow. You don't even know the entire story, yet the first thing you want to do is damage a business that you don't even know. We know one side of the story and that is it. In the south, we have a saying..."you catch more flies with honey than vinegar" and this is no different. Put yourself in that guys shoes if you had a business.

Without a contract stating that there was a refund policy, like in any other situation, even hiring an attorney (which is probably going to cost you more than the amount you want anyways) isn't going to get your money back. Would you consider delaying your training, and maybe he would be flexible about honoring that time you paid for at a later date? Maybe he would consider allowing you to donate that time to a program that would use it and honor that as a tax deductible contribution you could deduct in your taxes later? Maybe the EAA Young Eagles program or Giving Kids Wings? It is an unfortunate situation, but it is always best to talk to the owner in person, and just be friendly about it, not defensive. You can't be the first one with buyers remorse, or who changes their mind for whatever reason.
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I'm not trying to put anyone on blast here. I just wanted to get some advice on the situation since I'm sure it has happened to others on here as well.

I've been as nice as can be with him, but I don't see why it is unheard of to get my money back for unused services. I've tried to go about it in a very friendly and professional way. He won't have an open discussion about it so I'm just not sure what to do.

There are many different reasons that someone cannot continue flying. Does that mean he can just keep the rest of the money? That doesn't seem like good business to me.
 
It's going to be some work on your part. You've talked to the guy once already so you know his position.

Since it is a significant amount of money, I would consult an attorney prior to moving forward. They have ways of pressuring people. A well worded letter from a lawyer may loosen up his purse strings. Flight schools don't want bad press or their names in court filings.
 
gotWXdagain said:
Good advice, but here's something you might think about. If you do call him prior to "visiting" to see his money handling policy, and he produces one upon your arrival, you've just won the court case.

A contract that was written post-facto, having not been signed and agreed to by both parties, to cover one party's ass in a disagreement would surely be tossed by any judge.
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I understand what you're stating here. My point is that we already know the OP didn't sign a contract. What we don't know is if the company has an existing written policy about refunds that should have been known or is commonly know amongst the employees and students. If he DOESN'T have anything in writing but a policy supporting his position is well known, the OP might be headed up a hill.
However, if the company does not have a policy in writing, there is NOTHING that prevents him from writing a company policy and placing any date he deems necessary to support his position. This is why you don't want to call ahead. Seriously, only a total moron would date the policy after the incident!

Talk to an attorney.....

And, BTW, posting the name of the company here will help; we can all call and ask him to pay you back!
 
Flyinhigh728 said:
I'm not trying to put anyone on blast here. I just wanted to get some advice on the situation since I'm sure it has happened to others on here as well.

I've been as nice as can be with him, but I don't see why it is unheard of to get my money back for unused services. I've tried to go about it in a very friendly and professional way. He won't have an open discussion about it so I'm just not sure what to do.

There are many different reasons that someone cannot continue flying. Does that mean he can just keep the rest of the money? That doesn't seem like good business to me.
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Right, but you won't talk to him in person which isn't a great strategy either. Just talk it out. See what he has to say. Don't threaten an Attorney because any smart person would stop negotiating at that point.
 
Avgirl said:
Right, but you won't talk to him in person which isn't a great strategy either. Just talk it out. See what he has to say. Don't threaten an Attorney because any smart person would stop negotiating at that point.
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Im not sure where you got that impresion, but I never said I wouldn't talk to him in person. I will certainly try that tactic as well. I'm doing everything I can to avoid a negative interaction.

Thank you everyone for the advice. Like I said, I just wanted some other opinions and this seemed like the best place to do it.
 
dustoff17 said:
I understand what you're stating here. My point is that we already know the OP didn't sign a contract. What we don't know is if the company has an existing written policy about refunds that should have been known or is commonly know amongst the employees and students. If he DOESN'T have anything in writing but a policy supporting his position is well known, the OP might be headed up a hill.
However, if the company does not have a policy in writing, there is NOTHING that prevents him from writing a company policy and placing any date he deems necessary to support his position. This is why you don't want to call ahead. Seriously, only a total moron would date the policy after the incident!

Talk to an attorney.....

And, BTW, posting the name of the company here will help; we can all call and ask him to pay you back!
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This is exactly what you want.

"Can you produce proof that the Complainant was made aware of your policy?"

He can put whatever date he wants on the thing but without a bona fide signature it's worthless.
 
Derg said:
Bring @MikeD

He likes this stuff.
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NEVER PAY UP FRONT!!!

No matter how much they put pressure on you. They're applying pressure, and asking for funds up front, for a reason. And it's in their best interest, and never yours.
 
Let's say that I owe the bank $10K and I'm ready to lose the farm.

If I sell a $10K block of time to raise money to satisfy my debt, in the absence of any other agreement, I would think my only obligation to the buyer would be to provide an airworthy aircraft, as agreed.

The world doesn't always work like Walmart.

Beyond that, my generosity might allow the buyer to sell the time to a third party, but I wouldn't feel obligated. If the money has been spent, what can you expect? He may have no money, only available hours. In my life, I've sold a number of things in which it would have been impossible to provide a refund.
 
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