Big Sky to stop East Coast opps

777forever said:
And we make money doing it. Made a profit every quarter except one after 9-11. It can only get better from there.
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Kool-AidMan.jpg
 
Seggy said:
Arguing which regional has the best performance, is the best, coolest pilot group, etc is like arguing which STD is most preferable to get.
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Having been in your position before, I can understand what you're saying.

But after getting out from under the thumb of a company where I was miserable and now having much better work rules I can say that's not even close to being accurate.

I don't make enough money for what I do, but it isn't all bad (even when I'm sitting in a crashpad in Elizabeth, NJ while realistically not flying at all for this block of reserve days). That doesn't mean I won't complain, and won't try to make things better, but it does mean that there are some regionals that are going to treat you better than others, though none of them seem to have any stability.
 
Also, I've been thinking about why Delta wants to consolidate their DCI carriers.

I get the impression that Delta wanted to diversify their DCI carriers after they got crippled by having so much flying with Comair when they struck, so they decided to spread the flying out more.

Are they consolidating back to fewer carriers because they've lost quality control of their product now? Or is it really simply all fuel costs? If that were the case, then wouldn't Big Sky get more and more flying because they're operating an extremely efficient aircraft? Or Mesa with the Dash-8's?
 
I think Anderson cares a lot more about brand image and brand control than his predecessors. When he was CEO of NWA, he made sure that there were very strict controls over the Airlink partners. As time goes on, I think you'll find that he exerts more and more control over the DCI operation.
 
Well, that's good for my company. Delta has told our CEO that we're the model that the other DCI carriers are going to be built on. They've been blown away with the quality of the product that we're putting out, and they want more of it.

Too bad we don't have anymore airplanes.
 
jtrain609 said:
Having been in your position before, I can understand what you're saying.

But after getting out from under the thumb of a company where I was miserable and now having much better work rules I can say that's not even close to being accurate.

I don't make enough money for what I do, but it isn't all bad (even when I'm sitting in a crashpad in Elizabeth, NJ while realistically not flying at all for this block of reserve days). That doesn't mean I won't complain, and won't try to make things better, but it does mean that there are some regionals that are going to treat you better than others, though none of them seem to have any stability.
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It is extremly close to being accurate.

Regional flying is an unwanted byproduct of legacy flying (like an STD is an unwanted byproduct of something that should be enjoyable).

Yes some regionals treat you better, but in the end we are nothing more than an unwanted byproduct.

I would love for you to poll your coworkers and ask how many guys would rather be flying a 737, with proper pay, from IAH to YYZ than an ERJ.
 
Hey I'm right in that group! But let me tell you what, my perspective changed dramatically after I left my last company. There was no hope but to move onto a dream job at a place like Allegiant, which in my current view is a sub par scum sucking position.
 
jtrain609 said:
Hey I'm right in that group! But let me tell you what, my perspective changed dramatically after I left my last company. There was no hope but to move onto a dream job at a place like Allegiant, which in my current view is a sub par scum sucking position.
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Actually,

Mainline carriers have been picking up guys and gals from your last company a lot lately. People have been leaving for Alaska, Continental, and Frontier. And lets not forget all of the guys that have left for Flexjet and NetJets.

This company has problems (just like virtually any company would). I know for a fact that there are better gigs out there than this one. But I still believe it's one of the best places to be in the aviation industry. So far it's working out pretty decent for me. That's with good pay and 13 days off a month. My second year pay will be equal to first year regional airline captain pay.

I guess we all have our different perspectives though.
 
KLB said:
Actually,

Mainline carriers have been picking up guys and gals from your last company a lot lately. People have been leaving for Alaska, Continental, and Frontier. And lets not forget all of the guys that have left for Flexjet and NetJets.

This company has problems (just like virtually any company would). I know for a fact that there are better gigs out there than this one. But I still believe it's one of the best places to be in the aviation industry. So far it's working out pretty decent for me. That's with good pay and 13 days off a month. My second year pay will be equal to first year regional airline captain pay.

I guess we all have our different perspectives though.
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True dat! It works out differently for everybody. Even if I were based in Salt Lake in the 99 right now, I'd see Emily much less than I do now and even though I'd make a little more money, I'll make more next year.

To me, among other things, the sacrifice for the quality of time was not worth the quality of life. To me it sucked, but to some guys they love it. Everybody's after something different eh?
 
777, I know you are still new to the game, but this business is up in the air every day. Management can show profits or losses whenever they want. No one knows what management plans to do until it's on paper and it's public to viewing. Even then it still can be twisted. I've been at Comair for a year and a half, and have gone through bankruptcy, a pay-cut and a big number of airplanes being parked/reduced/given away. I still don't know what the future holds for us. I'm sorry for the BigSky guys. I've talked to a few and they were really nice guys. DL reducing their Connection by half is a great thing if that flying is going back to mainline. It isn't great for the regionals but think long run. I don't plan on spending the rest of my career doing the regionals. Not a knock against those who choose to do it. Fly safely have a positive attitude and remember we all want to profit in this industry.
 
Hey, you in JFK tomorrow, Soul? Coffee is on me if you are. Or we can go down and have lunch with "Petey the Rat" down in the cafeteria.
 
I'm in Newark for the duration (until Christmas eve) if you want to snag some grub in New York sometime, Doug. As long as there's a subway line nearby to get me back to Newark I'm hanging out here.
 
jtrain609 said:
True dat! It works out differently for everybody. Even if I were based in Salt Lake in the 99 right now, I'd see Emily much less than I do now and even though I'd make a little more money, I'll make more next year.

To me, among other things, the sacrifice for the quality of time was not worth the quality of life. To me it sucked, but to some guys they love it. Everybody's after something different eh?
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U sure about that?

4 day work weeks for 99 pilots before peak. I was PM or AM resv most of the time. And you would be going to metro school next month
 
What about the EAS stations at ESC, IMT, IWD, and MBL? I know that Big Sky bid on those guys. It's about a 13-15 line venture.
 
I just think its funny how a group of RJ pilots, all still wearing three stripes whose flight time combined wouldn't equal a Mainline Captain's - are arguing on the internet about whats going to happen with this, and why management did this blah blah blah. Just shut up and fly already!! :D


I bet management gets a big kick out of reading all the crap half of you FIRST OFFICER'S who don't know a turd from a brownie like to post on here. I know I get a kick out of it. :D
 
Kingairer said:
I believe they become "street" captains again. SUcks for those who took the gamble.
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Wow.. I came soooooo close..

It was either street captain at Big Sky or FO at 9E..

Horraayyy Tram finally made a semi-good decision!
 
falconvalley said:
What about the EAS stations at ESC, IMT, IWD, and MBL? I know that Big Sky bid on those guys. It's about a 13-15 line venture.
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Looks like Mesaba will win the 2 ESC/IMT shared flights by default. IWD and MBL are either SOL, or SYX will have only 2 1900 destinations;).

Who really knows?
 
There may be hope for the Montana employees as an employee owned airline

http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2008/01/10/news/local/18-employeebuyout.txt

Big Sky employees launch attempt to buy airline
2 big hurdles: finding financing and persuading feds to reverse decision on service contract
By JAN FALSTAD
Of The Gazette Staff

Employees for Big Sky Airlines, led by the pilots' union, are attempting to buy the Billings-based business and keep running Essential Air Service flights throughout Eastern Montana.

Big Sky pilot captain Bruce Tall, who heads Local 15 of the United Transportation Union, and other pilots from Billings flew to Helena earlier this week to meet with Gov. Brian Schweitzer and his staff.

On Wednesday afternoon, they went a step further with a telephone conference call with local economic development and airport officials to marshal support to keep Big Sky flying.

"This is a Montana company and we're all Montanans sitting here, and we want to keep this in Montana," Tall said during the meeting, which included Yellowstone County Commissioners John Ostlund and Jim Reno.

The pilots are heading up the effort to buy Big Sky Airlines, but the acquisition group includes mechanics and employees from the other unions, Tall said.

In December, Big Sky Airlines announced that it was losing too much money flying East Coast routes for Delta Airlines after an expansion that started last year. Those East Coast flights ended on Jan. 7.

Big Sky is owned by a Minneapolis company called MAIR Holdings Inc., which announced last month that it is selling the airline assets and will effectively go out of business.

MAIR and Big Sky executives also made a deal with Great Lakes Aviation, based in Cheyenne, Wyo., to take over Big Sky's EAS flights to seven Montana towns as early as Feb. 1.

Essential Air Service is a U.S. Department of Transportation program that offers federal subsidies for air carriers to fly to small cities and towns with routes that otherwise wouldn't be profitable.

"I will not speculate whether or not Great Lakes or any other airline will be able to come in by Feb. 1 and take over the EAS in such a short time," Tall said.

To complete the purchase, the Big Sky employees have two big hurdles: finding financing and persuading the DOT to reverse its decision to grant the air service contract to Great Lakes Aviation.

More than a dozen economic development experts from Eastern Montana cities that depend on the flights, as well as representatives of the Montana congressional delegation and the governor's office, participated in Wednesday's conference call.

"This is a grass-roots effort to launch a new airline," Tall said.

Big Sky Capt. Eric Knudson sat in on the meetings when Great Lakes offered to take over the Montana routes and said Great Lakes executives were not able to commit to flights to Helena. Helena, Great Falls and Missoula are not subsidized and apparently are not part of the Great Lakes service proposal, he said.

"We believe somebody should be able to get on a plane in Sidney and go to Kalispell without going through Minneapolis or Denver," Knudson said.

For Capt. Tom Witten, the issue is economic.

"We're interested in retaining jobs in Montana and the revenue and the cash flow," Witten said. "It's Montana economic development that we're trying to preserve."

On Tuesday, Big Sky sent its employees letters stating that their last day on the job would be March 8.

Ostlund and Reno said they supported the concept and suggested that Big Sky employees ask local economic development organizations for gap funding. That funding would help make up the difference on the financial package of what banks or other financiers may offer.

Evan Barrett, the governor's economic development officer, said seeking support from local communities like Sidney, Wolf Point, Glendive and Havre - which depend on Big Sky for air service - is important. But he said the issue is sensitive.

"It is delicate because in essence Great Lakes is the service provider now unless something changes," Barrett said. "Yet we have a group of Montanans who say they want to do this, so we don't want to shut the door on them, so we'll give them the technical assistance they need."

He advised the pilots to continue researching what money is available and to finish writing a business plan.

"Two companies are vying to serve Montana, and that's better than none," Barrett said.

Time is tight to put a deal together. If Big Sky Airlines shuts down, the airline's air carrier operating certificate from the Federal Aviation Administration lapses 30 days later.

"Then it (recertification) is very tough to resurrect and very expensive," Knudson said.

Contact Jan Falstad at jfalstad@billingsgazette.com or 657-1306.
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