Beware Pan Am !!!

Tired,
First of all, its FLDIVER, NOT FLDriver. I fail to see how in the world I am misrepresenting Pan Am when I am only telling the truth about my experience there.
As far as a LOA is concerned, I did take one. I took it AFTER I got my PPL. My PPL checkride was the last flight I took at Pan Am. I took the LOA to give me time to straighten out the Fraudulent charges to my account and to look for another school after I was treated so poorly by the administration. You know what? Even after I put in for my LOA, the idiots STILL tried to schedule me for flights. I was scheduled for 4 more flights while I was on LOA!!!!! I tried calling the school but never got to actually talk to anyone in charge, I was just transferred to a voice mail. After leaving repeated messages, no calls were ever returned, I had to throw one hell of a fit over the phone for them to get it through their thick skulls that I was not to be scheduled for flights while I was on LOA. Then I got so pissed that I called back and told them not to put me on the schedule until further notice. Thats what "Divot" was referring to when she said that I "Disappeared" from the school. Now, after I threw my temper tantrum, they took me off the schedule. I ask you, why couldn't they have done that when my car was broken down and I couldn't make it to the school? Again, obviously, Pan Am has a internal communication problem. I put in for the LOA and was still scheduled for flights....then I had to throw a freaking fit to get them removed. By the way, I was not charged for those flights.
As far as your statement about not understanding the policies and procedures, I did understand them. Also, I understand the FAR/AIM as well or I would not have passed my Checkride.
As far as being a serious student, going to one of those "BIG SCHOOLS" is a serious step in itself and I did study my butt off. If you are not a serious student you don't make a big step like that.
IF I was with an airline...you bet your ass that I would have found someway to get to work. Let me inform you of the difference in this situation. PAN AM IS NOT AN AIRLINE !!!! Pan Am is a school. I pay you !! You do not pay me !!! I was an E.R. Nurse for 10 years, I also owned my own business, I do not need some arrogant wannabe airline pilot telling me what responsibiliy is! Remember who enables you to get a paycheck every other week.
As far as the University student comment, most Universities that I know of, don't make their students sign a training contract and then rape them on the way out the door should they decided to go to another school. Pan Am is not a University...not even close. At least a University allows for learning without the worry of how much money they are going to steal from you.
As far as renting a car to drive such a distance, it was more trouble and cost than what it was worth. Some days I could borrow a car and get to the school and some days I could not, it was not cost effective to rent a car and pay for the gas to drive all that way. My monthly budget would not accomodate a cost like that..remember Pan Am does not allow its students to hold a job. I wanted to continue my training as best I could, taking a LOA at that time didn't even cross my mind. I thought I was doing the right thing by informing my instructor, dispatch and scheduling individually. Is it really that difficult to understand that a student can not make it to a flight for a given amount of time? Lets see, the instructor AND scheduler at Pan Am KNOWS a student can not be there for a flight, but what the hell, lets schedule him anyway, its not our problem, we get paid for it anyway!! Not only that, the student was courteous enough to call and cancel his flight, now we can charge him for a cancellation AND redispatch the A/C to another student and make twice as much money!!
Tired, I was fraudulently charged for flights that Pan Am knew I could not make. LOA or no LOA. Your statements that my instructor or dispatch had no incentive to really help me out really speaks volumes about the staff and how they really "care" about the students.
Like you, I am not trying to win an argument here, I am just telling my story. Also, I think it is my duty as an Ex-Pan Am'er to inform as many people as I can about my experience at the Ft. Pierce facility. I want people to know what is actually in Pan Am's training contract and the types of lures or bait they use to get people to visit their campus. Then they hide behind their contract if issues arise. The typical comment is "READ YOUR CONTRACT" !!
Like I have stated in previous posts, IF I would have read the contract prior to signing it, I would never had signed it in the first place. I want to inform the general public and future Pan Am students that you give up many many rights if you sign that contract. Don't make the same mistakes I did. Don't sign the contrat!!
Can you tell me why these "Big Schools" find it necessary to trap its students within a binding contract to begin with?? Why sign a contract at all??
Tired, as far as a Lawsuit against Pan Am, I never stated there was one. I wished there was one !! However, I have sought legal counsel and I do have a case as far as the Fradulent charges are concerned. Now I am hoping that Pan Am holds my money for 61 days, and breeches their own contract, I will take the ball and run with it then.
As far as the contact is concerned, I can not legally contest it at this point. My beef with Pan Am is from the ethical point of view. Is it really ethical to hold money that is not yours just to collect interest on it? It only takes an hour to audit an account, NOT 60 days. Is it really ethical to charge $2000.00 in administrative fees for a student disenrollment?? I am sure the real cost is less than $100.00. Was it good business practice or professional for one of your "friendly" staff to tell me it was "none of my business" what Pan Am did with MY money?? Was it good business practice for the Ft. Pierce administration NOT to return any of my phone calls or emails? Was it good business or professional for your "Chief Pilot" to keep his back turned to me, and tell me that it wasn't his problem, while I was trying to explain my situation to him? And you say the staff are not heartless.
Also, as a "BIG SCHOOL" , future students will be looking at these posts. You just may be hurting other "BIG SCHOOLS" as well as yourself. In my case, burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me !! I doubt very seriously if I will attend another "BIG SCHOOL". The risk is wayyyyy too high. Pan Am's lack of ethics, casts shadows on itself as well as other "BIG SCHOOLS". If Pan Am hadn't been so greedy and arrogant with me and returned my money in a timely manner, I doubt that I would have come to these boards to warn prospective students of the shady business practices.
Oh, I did get a reply from your CEO in regard to my letter of complaint. He "assured" me that the situation would be looked into and someone from Pan Am would contact me directly. I recevied that letter well over two weeks ago and have not heard a peep from Pan Am....like I stated in a previous post...PURE LIP SERVICE is all that letter was. WORTHLESS !!!!
I still stand by my original post...BEWARE PAN AM !!!!!
 
Pan Am Guy-

You say that the last thing Pan Am thinks about is your money!!!!! What planet are you on? And if you think that busting PTS on a manuever during a checkride is going to fail you, you're crazy. You're allowed a lot more leeway than you think. Grant it, there might be an Examiner in a bad mood or that needs to lower his pass rate!! Being strict on stagechecks is one thing, but being UNBELIEVABLY strict is another. You're out of your mind if you think Pan Am pilots are always going to be trained better. It just depends on how hard the instructor works. That's it I'm done- nobody else say anything stupid. PLEASE!! LOL
 
Newpilot01: Thank you for your reply. However, I am offended by the accusation that I am somehow being dishonest. I have no idea who FLDiver is, especially since he attended the Florida campus. Moreover, I am in no way related to “divot” or “Mr. Wright”. The method employed by divot are not ones that I agree with either. Also, I do not claim to be an “impartial reader.” I think it is obvious from my posts that I am associated with Pan Am. Fortunately, this does not make my points invalid. I will again make my point, written in a separate paragraph so it can be clearly read.

The experience that FLDiver describes in this thread are not typical of Pan Am. While it is FLDiver experience it misrepresents the employees and polices of Pan Am because it is an example of one single case out of hundreds of students. If every student had an experience similar to FLDiver’s experience, Pan Am would not be in business today. It would be naive to expect that every student at Pan Am would be completely satisfied. I’m sure for any company in this country I could find one very vocal upset customer.

Most of the negative posts on this message board are made by a very small, but very vocal minority. There are many satisfied Pan Am students, however, you won’t see them posting here because satisfied people do not go out of their way to tell everyone they can find about their great experience. Newpilot01, as someone with more marketing experience then I am years old, you should be aware of this fact.

Newpilot01, thank you for your explanation of why you are so interested with the posts about Pan Am. However, I regret to inform you that almost all Pan Am students have never seen these forums. Moreover, those who have seen these forums typically discount the posts made here for the reasons I have made above. Another reason these posts here don’t carry much credibility is because of the obvious lack of maturity, much of which is exhibited by people posting negatively towards Pan Am. In one thread I read a post about how a certain flight instructor was very attractive and made it worth attending Pan Am. In another thread I read how a certain former Pan Am student who is now a flight instructor makes it a point to show his students why he failed stage checks. This kind of behavior is not what I would expect from mature adults. This forum, while very biased against Pan Am is a very small part of the internet, and no matter what is posted here I doubt any of it will seriously affect Pan Am’s business.

Newpilot01, please explain what arguments you have made that are “hard to refute”. The only thing I’ve seen you post about in this thread is how you want everyone who posts something positive towards Pan Am to revel their identity, while it’s alright for the people who post negative stuff remain anonymous. If I’m understanding you correctly it’s acceptable that FLDiver, an anonymous poster, starts a very negative thread towards PanAm, but if I come forward to speak in favor a Pan Am I can be blasted as an “insider” and be forced to revel my identity to become credible. If you have a point other than this please explain it to everyone here so we can see what it is.
 
"Most of the negative posts on this message board are made by a very small, but very vocal minority. There are many satisfied Pan Am students, however, you won’t see them posting here because satisfied people do not go out of their way to tell everyone they can find about their great experience."

Actually, many people in the Flight Safety Academy forum do just that. Just my observation...
 
You guys talk too much..... Why don't you just step outside, settle it like men and beat the crap out of each other.
 
Well, we're finally working our way to the truth here, aren't we? Making some progress, finally. I have never disputed the school's right to refute a post you disagree with, only the methods you've chosen to use. Is it fair that posters can take potshots at you? Nobody said it was fair, but your problem is with the forum and not the students. When you use an alias to attack the poster by name, you've viloated the protocol of the board. When a large corporate entity attacks an individual, it makes the big guy look small. You look like a bully. When an educational organization does it, it's unethical. What is fair is for someone to identify themselves as a representative of the school and in general terms, like you've done today, defend the record. Forget this "it's obvious" stuff. Nobody needs your real name, but you need to be upfront about who you are. You gain credibility then. Even now, though, you're instincts are to be slippery about this stuff. You say you're not "related" to divot or wright--is that by blood? Just as it's obvious to me who you and panamguy are, it's the same thing whith divot and wright--you're in AZ and they're in FL.
You say that very few students read this forum. If so, why have you chosen to attack them in a hurtful, personal way rather than ignore them, or use a representative to make the case for the school? Don't you think you'd be better off? The points you make on behalf of the school today seem reasonable. Let the readers decide. This forum's rule mays not be totally fair to you, but who said life is fair? Is it fair that the only picture some students might get of your school before they enroll is from the puff piece they read in Plane & Pilot, which is totally uncritical (for obvious reasons)? They read that and then take your guided tour and then sign up. Who has the advantage in that exchange? A forum like this evens the playing field a bit. That doesn't mean you can't make it work to your advantage, though. By honest representation you can make yourself look better to the "mature" students you say you seek, and discourage the "immature" students you know will give you grief. I've given you my opinion, and it's up to you the path you choose. It's my guess there is something ingrained in your corporate psyche that will prohibit you from taking the high road. I hope I'm wrong. But I'm finished posting in the PanAm section. I usually get paid for these counseling sessions. If my son decides to pursue his flying dream after he completes his college degree, we'll revist this section again. Tired, I'll leave you with a quote that I keep with me at all times: "You don't have to blow out the other fellow's light to let your own shine."
 
I usually post at the FSI forum, but the entertainment value in this forum is to much to pass up. Seriously, it's a joke, it comes across more like a soap, I thought the Gulfstream forum was bad, but man this is just flat out ugly.

After reading all this, do you guy's honestly expect the public to take your flight program seriously.

Best Regards,
Heat2151
 
So am I. Tired that is. Too much negative energy in the Pan Am forum. I'll still visit the school though. Someday.
 
Man i can't believe i just wasted a half an hour of my life reading all of this bull. Not one single bit of
information in this thread was helpful, except for the fact that i realized i can't use any information
to help me make my decision. Every single one of these posts are worthless. I can't believe they allow
children to continue posting like this, since it helps noone in the decision making process. I thought that
this forum was supposed to be helpful, and was created to help those who are having difficulty deciding
which school to attend. I can not wait to go and visit the school myself, and come up with a logical, factful
legitimite opinion.

Grow up.
 
Spharrell,
If you read all the posts and didn't find any useful info, you are going to be Pan Am's next victim. If you are going to visit the school for yourself for some logical, factful and legit opinions, do yourself a favor and heed these warnings. If you go to the school, you will get the sugar coated, "we will help you achieve anything you want" schpiel. As you probably saw, there were a few people that got wayyy off the topic of my original post, and started bashing each other. I personally avoid those types of posts. Like I said before, I am not in a pissing contest here, all I was doing was explaining my story as it happened.
Go ahead and visit the school, if you go to the Ft. Pierce campus, be prepared to be impressed. Impressed with the facility and the new aircraft and the "VERY" helpful staff. The environment is professional and I would even say downright sterile looking.
Try to avoid becoming mesmerized by all that riff raff. Ask them for a copy of the training contract BEFORE you decide on spending your hard earned money to help pay for their new facilities and aircraft. Once they have their greedy paws on YOUR money, you are at their mercy. Read MY posts again. IT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU!!! I am not saying that it will happen, but it could. As one of my wiser instructors told me, "pray for the best but expect and prepare for the worst" this applies directly to Pan Am. Why would you want to take that chance when you are giving them so much of your money? I did reaearch just like everyone else on this forum, I saw the posts about Pan Am on other forums. I went to the school to check it out for myself, I was fed their line of bull. I chose not to heed the warnings that were clearly there. Just a thought to ponder. Good Luck in your research.

Jim
 
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