swisspilot
Well-Known Member
Are you sure? I know many pilots that have flown 737 in Indonesia and then went back flying for SWA with a lot less TT then most regional pilots, their time on 737 was what got them on..
Beware: Another PFT Scam!
- Thread starter Teller1900
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Are you sure? I know many pilots that have flown 737 in Indonesia and then went back flying for SWA with a lot less TT then most regional pilots, their time on 737 was what got them on..
swisspilot
Well-Known Member
That means that most of the European airlines (60-70% of them) don`t respect their pilots? this is just how it works over there too....
Your point? In Afghanistan, they make the girls.cover their whole body, head to toe in public. Does that mean we should to?
swisspilot
Well-Known Member
What I meant to say, is that things in aviation work a lot different around the world then they do in the US. The aviation culture is totally different, a commercial pilot in most places is an airline pilot, there is no GA. The system works in a different way, it suck to pay to fly but it`s not the same as it would be in the US. I don`t like it either to have to pay but I have to say that the situation even after paying is way better then the one of any pilot that hasn`t paid one $ to fly, like for an US regional. Aviation outside the US and very few other countries is not as accessible, if you have the money to pay to get a license paying for this kind of things it`s not a big deal at the end it`s still a rich kids game, yes the airline should pay but trust me in most of them in a year or two you made all that money back and you have lived pretty well without having to eat ramens..
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Have you read Herb's book at all? In there he is pretty clear that you don't hire pilots for experience, you hire for personality.
swisspilot
Well-Known Member
I know but the fact they had flown the 737 helped a lot...
As fat as Americans are getting these days, it might be helpful....
SurfandSun
Well-Known Member
I know some Swedish pilots go through this type of system but it's a better situation than what's being posted here. The pilot/applicant pays about $40,000 for the 737 training course but they can expect to make around $90,000 their first year so the payback is a lot better. These particular pilots I knew also had the advantage that they somehow got a lot of their aviation paid for by the government. Not sure how it all works exactly but needless to say it's different than here.
Where in Vegas can I get a type rating for 8k.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
I can conceive of a theoretical airline which charged, say, $20k for a 737 type, paid peanuts and worked the pilots to death. You do your year, upgrade, do your second year, and off to China to make $180k and live like a porn star. As our Riddle Aces are always reminding us, a JET is a JET is a JET, and 250 hour puppymillers are flying 737s in Europe, and their Airplane Identification Prowess gives them a leg up, etc etc. I think this is a Business Opportunity...er both to make money and to help intrepid birdmen achieve their uh dreams or whatever.
WacoFan, you in?
WacoFan, you in?
I looked, and can't find their website. But "the other place" is calling it "Lone Eagle." But do your research. Google is your friend.
WacoFan
Bigly
I've been here since Christmas Eve of 2007. In that time I've read numerous posts of people, mostly youngsters but also many career changers who have chased the dream of flight. More than that...they've sunk high five-figure, low six-figure amounts of money into this quest. I've also noticed while very outspoken about "protecting the profession" and "not lowering the bar" many would sell their own Grandmothers in order to get ahead of their "brothers in aviation". Some will sell their Grandmothers, achieve their goal, then scold people against selling their Grandmothers. Some will fly almost main-line equipment on routes between major cities for a regional for much less than a major...but all will uniformly bash pilots flying 19 seat turboprops between Craphole, North Dakota and Enema, Montana because THEY are a threat to the "profession", and none will see the irony in this.
In short, my answer is hell yes I'm in. PT Barnum would wet himself of such a target-rich environment.
Zondaracer
Well-Known Member
Regarding the whole Europe and paying for type ratings thing... I might be wrong but from what I heard, it mostly started with Ryanair and spread to other airlines. Where did Ryanair get the idea?? From Southwest Airlines. But here in Europe, a type rating easily costs 2 or 3 times more than in the US. Today, it seems to become more of the norm than the exception to pay a type rating in Europe. In fact, airlines require applicants to have finished a Multicrew Cooperation Course (a CRM course) before they can even be considered for an interview.
Unless you are lucky enough to get hired through British Airways, Lufthansa, or Air France's cadet programs, the situation is quite bad. To give everyone an idea...
Pilot training here in Europe costs between €50,000 and €100,000
Then there are literally thousands of 200 hour wonders applying everywhere. Ryanair has been a main source of hiring for these low hour pilots
Ryanair 737 type rating = €28,500; first year pay is about €40,000 (largely dependent on base and what time of year you get hired) but the the pilots don't start getting paid until they pass their safety check which is about 4-6 months down the line, so the actual first year on company property comes up to about half of that. Most of these pilots are contractors, and are required to set up their own company so that they can get reduced income tax while they pay back their loan for the type rating. Nothing is paid for during training. You even have to pay for the privilege to interview... seriously. Many guys go here, get their time and then go elsewhere.
Vueling A320 type rating = €20,000, first year pay varies with flying but can expect around €1800 per month. A junior Captain at Vueling is taking home around €4,000 per month (roughly)
Volotea B717 type rating = €27,500, first year pay is €12,000, three year contract (this is for 250 hour wonders, and they only get hired from CAE/Oxford which is one of the most expensive schools out there). Oh yeah, the interview also costs €460.
Flybe = free type rating. First year pay is around 38,000 GBP from what I have heard guys telling me, but they have graduated from one of three schools which costs approximately 130,000USD
Easyjet = must graduate from CTC, most guys saying that a loan for the whole program plus type rating comes out to loan payments of 1000GBP per month (this is only for their training loan if they didn't front any money). On top of this they have to come up with car payments, rent, living expenses. First year pay I heard is around 40,000 GBP.
Yes, there are guys who get their training paid for by the likes of British Airways and enter right away on a decent salary, but this is the minority. I work at a European flying school and lots of kids are easily sinking €70,000 or more into training, plus an additional €30,000 on a type rating if they even get hired.
I know an A320 captain at a low cost airline here, and he was telling our students that they should probably go buy a type rating and 500 hours somewhere in indonesia or wherever. He said that the airlines didn't value his Skymaster and dual given time. He said that they really want people with time on type. I was dumbfounded. I know a guy with about 3000 hours TPIC on a metroliner, and he applied to the same low cost carrier and they told him that he had too much experience to be considered.
The grass is greener on the other side guys.
Wow, those Swedish pilots were lucky then. Unfortunately, the current situation in Europe is quite different.
Unless you are lucky enough to get hired through British Airways, Lufthansa, or Air France's cadet programs, the situation is quite bad. To give everyone an idea...
Pilot training here in Europe costs between €50,000 and €100,000
Then there are literally thousands of 200 hour wonders applying everywhere. Ryanair has been a main source of hiring for these low hour pilots
Ryanair 737 type rating = €28,500; first year pay is about €40,000 (largely dependent on base and what time of year you get hired) but the the pilots don't start getting paid until they pass their safety check which is about 4-6 months down the line, so the actual first year on company property comes up to about half of that. Most of these pilots are contractors, and are required to set up their own company so that they can get reduced income tax while they pay back their loan for the type rating. Nothing is paid for during training. You even have to pay for the privilege to interview... seriously. Many guys go here, get their time and then go elsewhere.
Vueling A320 type rating = €20,000, first year pay varies with flying but can expect around €1800 per month. A junior Captain at Vueling is taking home around €4,000 per month (roughly)
Volotea B717 type rating = €27,500, first year pay is €12,000, three year contract (this is for 250 hour wonders, and they only get hired from CAE/Oxford which is one of the most expensive schools out there). Oh yeah, the interview also costs €460.
Flybe = free type rating. First year pay is around 38,000 GBP from what I have heard guys telling me, but they have graduated from one of three schools which costs approximately 130,000USD
Easyjet = must graduate from CTC, most guys saying that a loan for the whole program plus type rating comes out to loan payments of 1000GBP per month (this is only for their training loan if they didn't front any money). On top of this they have to come up with car payments, rent, living expenses. First year pay I heard is around 40,000 GBP.
Yes, there are guys who get their training paid for by the likes of British Airways and enter right away on a decent salary, but this is the minority. I work at a European flying school and lots of kids are easily sinking €70,000 or more into training, plus an additional €30,000 on a type rating if they even get hired.
I know an A320 captain at a low cost airline here, and he was telling our students that they should probably go buy a type rating and 500 hours somewhere in indonesia or wherever. He said that the airlines didn't value his Skymaster and dual given time. He said that they really want people with time on type. I was dumbfounded. I know a guy with about 3000 hours TPIC on a metroliner, and he applied to the same low cost carrier and they told him that he had too much experience to be considered.
The grass is greener on the other side guys.
SeanD
Well-Known Member
8k for a 737ng rating at pan am?
SeanD
Well-Known Member
No idea on the cost. I just Googled 737 type in Las Vegas and it was the only one that came up. I had no idea PanAm even had a place in Vegas
I sent them an email the other day this is what I got back:Mr. Jackson,
The flying will be done in Asia operated by an Airline based there.
This program is for Pilots with a minimum of 200 hours total time with no experience.
In regards to the NG TYPE RATED program we only accept applicant with a current Boeing 737NG type rating endorsed on their licence.
The agency charges of $44,800 for our current program does not cover the type rating.
The 44,800 charge covers the following:
1.To acquire a Three (3) year employment contract with an Airline based in Asia that operates a Boeing 737NG;
2.To validate Candidates’ current pilot license
3.To assist in obtaining an Airline’s Sponsorship
4.To assist in obtaining an initial one (1) year Work Permit for the Candidate,
5.To provide through its agent the Mandatory Training which may include the following:
A.Dangerous Goods Training;
B.Crew Resource Management Training;
C.English Proficiency Exam;
D.RVSM Training;
E.Aviation Security Training;
F.Wind shear Training;
G.Emergency Escape (Wet Drill) Training; and/or
H.Base Training in the Aircraft.
Thank you
The flying will be done in Asia operated by an Airline based there.
This program is for Pilots with a minimum of 200 hours total time with no experience.
In regards to the NG TYPE RATED program we only accept applicant with a current Boeing 737NG type rating endorsed on their licence.
The agency charges of $44,800 for our current program does not cover the type rating.
The 44,800 charge covers the following:
1.To acquire a Three (3) year employment contract with an Airline based in Asia that operates a Boeing 737NG;
2.To validate Candidates’ current pilot license
3.To assist in obtaining an Airline’s Sponsorship
4.To assist in obtaining an initial one (1) year Work Permit for the Candidate,
5.To provide through its agent the Mandatory Training which may include the following:
A.Dangerous Goods Training;
B.Crew Resource Management Training;
C.English Proficiency Exam;
D.RVSM Training;
E.Aviation Security Training;
F.Wind shear Training;
G.Emergency Escape (Wet Drill) Training; and/or
H.Base Training in the Aircraft.
Thank you
Zondaracer
Well-Known Member
It is quite common here in Europe, unfortunately. And there are quite a few wet license holders who don't find jobs and think that if they buy a 737NG type rating plus 500 hours in Indonesia or North Africa and think that 700hrs TT, 500 hrs on type will get them a job in Euroland. Some integrated students (similar to 141) are going straight into an airbus or boeing with as low as 170hours total time here.
I don't think you will find a lot of Americans signing up for this deal, but don't be surprised if there are a handful of Europeans and guys from other countries such as India, Australia, and more funding these types of schemes.