Better start your flight training soon...
- Thread starter charlie1017
- Start date
- Status
R
Roger, Roger
Guest
CFI6789: Oh teh Noes!!!
121Pilot12345: I got mine, screw you.
121Pilot12345: I got mine, screw you.
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
It's unfortunate that so many pilots have no desire of owning a small plane to go travel in in the future. I would love to have one, but with the escalating costs, realize it wouldn't be realistic for me. Even a relatively inexpensive old Bonanza or Commanche.
It's not like the government will suddenly decide to reduce taxes anywhere else. They already robbed, er excuse me - reallocated, the aviation trust fund (which was set up to upgrade the ATC system and airports) for other projects.
I feel like I read about another billion dollar over run in the ATC NextGen plan every year.
Now, there will be every single dollar already paid to the government via fuel tax (obviously a user fee), landing fees (obviously a user fee), a security tax (a pass through user fee). In addition, there will now be a monthly bill sent to your house, or work for each time you use the system.
I wonder how big of a department is going to be set up to manage the invoicing and collecting the fees every month?
A large number the 135 operations where so many people got their feet wet might be pushed to the brink due to using an extra sector during a weather deviation, or a diversion.
It will be interesting to see it play out, but I think if the budget gets passed on this, there will be thousands upon thousands of light planes for sale cheap and a bunch of people in Wichita out of work.
And you can't blame it on the Dems....this has been in the works for DECADES. It was going to come to fruition whether a R or D was in the house. All the beating on aviation and the commercials of the cartoon airliners waiting while a lear jet took off in front of them, and the laments of the passengers have won.
While this might be a boon to my career 15 years after it's implemented, I think it sucks goat nuts. I feel like my dream of ever owning a small plane to fly myself and family around in, should I ever have the cash, just evaporated.
It's not like the government will suddenly decide to reduce taxes anywhere else. They already robbed, er excuse me - reallocated, the aviation trust fund (which was set up to upgrade the ATC system and airports) for other projects.
I feel like I read about another billion dollar over run in the ATC NextGen plan every year.
Now, there will be every single dollar already paid to the government via fuel tax (obviously a user fee), landing fees (obviously a user fee), a security tax (a pass through user fee). In addition, there will now be a monthly bill sent to your house, or work for each time you use the system.
I wonder how big of a department is going to be set up to manage the invoicing and collecting the fees every month?
A large number the 135 operations where so many people got their feet wet might be pushed to the brink due to using an extra sector during a weather deviation, or a diversion.
It will be interesting to see it play out, but I think if the budget gets passed on this, there will be thousands upon thousands of light planes for sale cheap and a bunch of people in Wichita out of work.
And you can't blame it on the Dems....this has been in the works for DECADES. It was going to come to fruition whether a R or D was in the house. All the beating on aviation and the commercials of the cartoon airliners waiting while a lear jet took off in front of them, and the laments of the passengers have won.
While this might be a boon to my career 15 years after it's implemented, I think it sucks goat nuts. I feel like my dream of ever owning a small plane to fly myself and family around in, should I ever have the cash, just evaporated.
Clocks
Well-Known Member
All the article says is "the budget assumes that the air traffic control system will be funded with direct charges levied on users of the system"
It may never happen. Remember the president needs to make it appear like he's cutting spending. By "assuming user fees are implemented" he can scratch that off the deficit and pretend we just saved $7 billion, when there may be a 90% chance or a 1% chance this actually happens.
I wouldn't believe any thing until the ink is dry and you're mailing in your first user fee bill.
It may never happen. Remember the president needs to make it appear like he's cutting spending. By "assuming user fees are implemented" he can scratch that off the deficit and pretend we just saved $7 billion, when there may be a 90% chance or a 1% chance this actually happens.
I wouldn't believe any thing until the ink is dry and you're mailing in your first user fee bill.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
It would seem that we saw the same thing.
Clocks
Well-Known Member
does....not...compute....
Would you have felt that way back in the day when you were training?
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Like ALPA wouldn't do the same thing, praising the new proposal about the new "fairness" in the billing system. Give me a break.:laff:
BajtheJino
I'm looking at you.
I'm not sure what you mean by non biased. Aviation user fees will choke and kill small 135's and the average small aircraft owner. How is what will happen be biased. Does anyone dispute this?
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Show me where it says it's in the budget and happening. AOPA already has people running screaming bloody murder, and it's not even happening yet. It's PROPOSED. There's a PROPOSED ban on pythons, but I doubt that'll see the light of day either.
What if they just decided to jack the tax on gas? That WOULDN'T "choke and kill small 135's and the average small aircraft owner?" End result would be the same, just in a different package.
Toonces
Well-Known Member
No, it seems he is the I got mine screw you type of guy now that he is a big airline pilot.
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
Yep. And why is it that the only airports that regularly end up with ground stops and EDCTs are those served by the airlines. Could it be that they're trying to stuff 115 airplanes into an airport with an hourly AAR of 100? Toss in some weather, and it goes down to around 75. What happens when those extra airplanes end up in a holding stack? Center shuts down the arrival gate and it sends ripples through the system. Again, it is not the fault of the airspace system. It goes back to the assinine scheduling practices of the airlines. I think that sometimes they forget that controllers can't put two airplanes closer than 3 miles or 1000 feet.
And along with that goes pilots that crew those airline flight decks. You're probably at the point now that you can count on some sort of decent schedule that allows you to have a family life. How about in 5 years when the number of student pilots coming up the pipe are cut by a huge percentage. You either work your ass off to fill the gaps or you lose your job for not being a team player.
Still want user fees?
I disagree. Slot auctions would take money from your company's pocket. User fees would take money from my company's pocket. The principals are the same. I doubt a pilot on either side would see a significant trickle down from it. To make matters worse, we all know that user fees would likely NOT be put toward what is advertised. GA has been paying excise taxes for years, but where are the improvements?
Again, we've been paying excise taxes for years. You say your paycheck would be affected. Why can't the airlines up the ticket prices to offset the any taxes? The chances of your paycheck taking a cut would be much less likely than my paycheck getting the axe.
On second thought, I guess the airlines would screw that up just like the baggage fees; letting the consumer actually see the cost accumulating at the check in counter. Just bury it in the actual ticket price and no one knows the difference.
I'd say it wouldn't be a usual thing, but you'd occasionally hear of someone that went scud running to avoid paying the fees.
Toonces
Well-Known Member
No, I am only afraid of "change". Midgets scare me. Does that make me a racist? Something about their sausage fingers creeps me out.
OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
The problem isn't the airspace its the lack of concrete (or asphalt) at a select few airports to serve the airlines current bloated schedule. Build some runways, stimulate the economy, and the airlines can overschedule the increased capacity again.
Mark, I know you are a smart guy. Commutair was never brought in to EWR to start service to Harrisburg and Scranton. The sole purpose of those airplanes and most of the Colgan and XJT flying there is to increase the number departures so in the event of EWR getting slotted, they have a larger initial presence. The problem in EWR isn't ATC, or the lack of runways, it's the buffoons down on Smith Street a time zone away. It's the airlines that can't figure out that less flights is a good thing.
Interesting tidbit on the LGA slots. AMR volunteered to give up 3 slots per hour IF the slots were never to be used again. The feds said nope, we have to sell or give them to someone. AMR said screw that, and flies 15 ERJs a day to RDU instead.
Ever wonder why the GA folks never have a problem with EDCTs and all that other stuff that the airline folks deal with? Its an airline problem, not an aviation problem.
Mark, I know you are a smart guy. Commutair was never brought in to EWR to start service to Harrisburg and Scranton. The sole purpose of those airplanes and most of the Colgan and XJT flying there is to increase the number departures so in the event of EWR getting slotted, they have a larger initial presence. The problem in EWR isn't ATC, or the lack of runways, it's the buffoons down on Smith Street a time zone away. It's the airlines that can't figure out that less flights is a good thing.
Interesting tidbit on the LGA slots. AMR volunteered to give up 3 slots per hour IF the slots were never to be used again. The feds said nope, we have to sell or give them to someone. AMR said screw that, and flies 15 ERJs a day to RDU instead.
Ever wonder why the GA folks never have a problem with EDCTs and all that other stuff that the airline folks deal with? Its an airline problem, not an aviation problem.
Very disappointing Mark.
Seems like along with representation you've become nothing but an ALPA talking head who forgot where he came from.
What a shame.
HeyEng
Well-Known Member
So what do you propose they do? Sit on their ass and wait for it to happen? That would make a lot of sense. I promise that if this comes to fruition, that most of the money WILL be diverted into other programs.
I guess we need to figure out how to cover the costs of "discharging" the debt Chrysler owes to the taxpayers...what better way than to charge us "rich and wealthy bastards that own an aero-plane"!?! I never thought I was rich as an enlisted dude in the Air Force, but somehow I own an airplane.
What is the deal with some of the union pilots that so supportive of this tax? More pulling up of the ladder?
So I am not the only one to notice this, huh? I think my Granddad was right about ALPA.
OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
PCL has openly stated that he is all for pulling up the ladder.
I guess they think it will help the airlines operationally (but it won't), so I guess they think they might be able to get a pay raise because the airlines are making more money (which won't happen). They'll just schedule more flights and charge less for the seats, all the while destroying general aviation.
- Status