Best UPT Base
- Thread starter alphaone
- Start date
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Best asked over on BaseOps, but my purely subjective list is:
1. Sheppard (if you can get ENJJPT)
...but since we're just talking about UPT...
1. Columbus
2. Vance
3. Laughlin
You can throw in the odd ones, like NAS Whiting for Phase I/II, and even the merits of Phase III locations like Corpus and Rucker, but for simplicity's sake, that's my list.
Why?
First off, I picked Sheppard for two reasons: One, the Euro NATO program includes more flight hours than SUPT, and two, Wichita Falls is a better location than any of the UPT bases -- close to both Dallas and OKC, and within range of Austin, San Antonio, and Houston. Plus it is a college town (Midwestern State Univ) and just a generally more interesting place than Columbus, Enid, or Del Rio.
But, so far as the straight UPT bases go....
The training itself is pretty much a wash. The program is the same, the airplanes are the same, the quality of instruction is the same. I'd give a slight edge to Columbus on account of the fact that the weather is pretty lousy there -- you'll likely spend more time in actual IMC at CBM than the other two....for whatever that is worth to you. The opposite could be said for Laughlin, if you really cared to have a lot of clear-sky weather, but to me if I'm learning to fly, doing it in actual IMC is preferred to CAVU.
So, the real nut-cutter is simply location. Columbus is a typical small southern town, but it's very close to a nice SEC college town (Starkville, Miss) and within an easy drive of Tuscaloosa (Roll Tide). There are also some good "big towns" within reasonable driving distance (MEmphis, Birmingham, Atlanta, New Orleans). Although Enid is within driving distance of both OKC, Tulsa, and Wichita, and for a slightly longer haul Dallas is an option, I think CBM offers a wider variety of places.
We don't even really need to talk about Del Rio, do we?
1. Sheppard (if you can get ENJJPT)
...but since we're just talking about UPT...
1. Columbus
2. Vance
3. Laughlin
You can throw in the odd ones, like NAS Whiting for Phase I/II, and even the merits of Phase III locations like Corpus and Rucker, but for simplicity's sake, that's my list.
Why?
First off, I picked Sheppard for two reasons: One, the Euro NATO program includes more flight hours than SUPT, and two, Wichita Falls is a better location than any of the UPT bases -- close to both Dallas and OKC, and within range of Austin, San Antonio, and Houston. Plus it is a college town (Midwestern State Univ) and just a generally more interesting place than Columbus, Enid, or Del Rio.
But, so far as the straight UPT bases go....
The training itself is pretty much a wash. The program is the same, the airplanes are the same, the quality of instruction is the same. I'd give a slight edge to Columbus on account of the fact that the weather is pretty lousy there -- you'll likely spend more time in actual IMC at CBM than the other two....for whatever that is worth to you. The opposite could be said for Laughlin, if you really cared to have a lot of clear-sky weather, but to me if I'm learning to fly, doing it in actual IMC is preferred to CAVU.
So, the real nut-cutter is simply location. Columbus is a typical small southern town, but it's very close to a nice SEC college town (Starkville, Miss) and within an easy drive of Tuscaloosa (Roll Tide). There are also some good "big towns" within reasonable driving distance (MEmphis, Birmingham, Atlanta, New Orleans). Although Enid is within driving distance of both OKC, Tulsa, and Wichita, and for a slightly longer haul Dallas is an option, I think CBM offers a wider variety of places.
We don't even really need to talk about Del Rio, do we?
alphaone
Well-Known Member
Hacker,
Thank you a ton. You are always the man when it comes to getting info or anything helpful really.
I didn't post this on BaseOps because I don't feel like getting a thousand "UTFSF" responses and generally people are nicer here. Frankly, I don't even bother starting threads over there..
Ideally I would like to be at Whiting Field but from what I hear it takes a bit longer down there so I don't think I'm going to put that on my list. I was thinking CBM already but you pretty much convinced me to put that # 1. Although it is the South....
This is assuming I do not get ENJJPT.
As always, I will be happy wherever I end up because I am lucky to even be there and I am there to learn to fly not party.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Re: Whiting, from what I saw it was the slowest of any UPT or primary base across the board of services. Overall the Navy program is more subject to scheduling problems (we didn't have a meaningful expected graduation date), and of the two Navy primary bases, Whiting is by far the slowest. To give you an idea, I started primary @ Corpus back in June while some other friends went off to Whiting at the same time. I have since finished primary, moved to MS, gone home for a month, waited some more, completed T-45C ground school, and am now flying in the jet syllabus in the T-45. Many of my friends in Whiting on the other hand are still finishing up primary. There are a lot of great things, lifestyle wise about the Navy program, but from what I have gathered from my buds who went to Vance for primary, it will be a big time shocker to return for the rest of your training and have to learn the AF style of flight school. Some things to think about if you are leaning towards Whiting. That said, I really don't think you would regret going to the Pensacola area, vice some of the other UPT locations. A final word of caution is that the T-34C is a huge step down from pretty much any advanced training aircraft you will fly. I'm not totally familiar with how your training pipeline works after UPT, but at some point you will have to make a pretty substantial transition in terms of aircraft performance, complexity, and workload. It was certainly challenging at first for me, to say the least.
ian
Well-Known Member
I agree
the advantage to whiting is no standup and its on your own pace rather than a class pace, but stand up isn't hard at all. You just have to think through it.
Also, whiting starts using the T-6 in may.
imatworkallday
Well-Known Member
Ummmmm...closed...Willie (assuming this is Williams) in 93 and Reese in 97...although Williams would be a good choice if still open, especially now!
Yes!
. That's why I had the late sentence in the bottom of the quote.Agree.....if the USAF kept open nice bases...
Willie did have airspace probs as I remember....nearest ops sections of the Williams 1-4 MOA starting a good distance away. Reese though, don't know why it went by the wayside. They'd even had SUPT there for a short time before it went. Willie never got SUPT....not staying open long enough to have seen it.
germb747
Well-Known Member
No Laughlin fans, eh? No love for Ciudad Acuna? Oh yea, I don't think you guys can go over there any more :yup:
Laughlin wasn't bad, but I have little basis for comparing it to the other bases. I say you're very lucky to go to SUPT regardless of where and should put forth your best effort. The quality of your training will depend on the quality of your flight members, your IPs, and of course your flight commander. (and most important, what YOU put into it)
I personally thought my T-6 flight commander left something to be desired, but a good FC who displays some leadership for the flight does wonders.
Laughlin wasn't bad, but I have little basis for comparing it to the other bases. I say you're very lucky to go to SUPT regardless of where and should put forth your best effort. The quality of your training will depend on the quality of your flight members, your IPs, and of course your flight commander. (and most important, what YOU put into it)
I personally thought my T-6 flight commander left something to be desired, but a good FC who displays some leadership for the flight does wonders.
fish314
Well-Known Member
I did Hell Rio for pilot training, and I've been instructing at Columbus for the last 3-ish years. Also, my best friend from the zoo is an IP out at Vance and I've been out there about 5-6 times to see him so I've had a chance to get around Enid pretty well. So I've had more experience in the three locations than most, and I'd rank them the same as Hacker:
Laughlin is definitely #3. Acuna has always been a hell hole with 1 good bar (Corona club) and 1 good restaurant (Ma Crosby's). There are about 2 other decent bars, and a rather uninteresting cathouse (unless women-donkey relations are your thing, in which case knock yourself out!).
Columbus as a location is probably the most fun. Tuscaloosa has a great college/bar scene and is about an hour away. Starkville is about 40 minutes away, but the nightlife scene isn't anywhere near as good. On the down side, the city of Columbus itself has very little in terms of redeeming qualities... but you could easily say that of Enid or Del Rio, too.
Vance isn't bad either, because you're around an hour and a half from OKC, and there is a pretty good time to be had in that town. Bricktown, in the middle of OKC, has a pretty good selection of restaurants and bars.
As for instructors, the best T-6 IP out there is in columbus as an ADO in the 41st. Look him up when you get there!:nana2:
ian
Well-Known Member
I already Final contact either friday or monday....and we are going into form instead of instruments next
bunk22
Well-Known Member
As an associate IP down at Whiting, VT-6 specifically, and the OIC of the prep school for all RNSF pilots, I've noticed a few things. Scheduling has been an issue with my Saudi's and US studs as well. I can't pin it down, whether is due to the civilians running the schedule, the bad weather (especially summer time) or the fact that the number of available T-34's has diminished. So three squadrons have to share those on the flight line and there is an X amount of 34's available for daily ops. It might be a combination of all I think.
As to the T-6 at Whiting, the first 2 T-6B's arrive in July, with more to follow. However, those are for the FITU only and the first VT-3 students to train on them start April of 2010.
As to the T-6 at Whiting, the first 2 T-6B's arrive in July, with more to follow. However, those are for the FITU only and the first VT-3 students to train on them start April of 2010.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Pensacola NAS is not an option for you unless you are a Nav/Flight Officer. If you went to Whiting, you would do our API syllabus @ NAS Pensacola, but would then head up the road to Milton FL and Whiting Field for primary/UPT. Whiting is somewhere around 30-40 mins from P'cola by car.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Is your CC still an ex-BUFF guy (Hamilton)? When I rolled through the 41st last September he was the CC then....he was my assigned IP as a Captain there in the 41st a decade ago!
if4not
Well-Known Member
I must totally disagree.
I went to Hell Rio by the Sea and I thought it was the perfect place to do UPT. The weather is fantastic, the lake is nice and you aren't in Oklahoma, which sucks.
Sheppard used to have the benefit of a higher rate of fighter assignments. I don't know if that's still true. And It's fairly close to Dallas. On the down side, it is also close to Oklahoma.
Columbus is nice because of it's location (again, not in Oklahoma) and you have all of the hot chicks at the Mississippi University for Women to look forward to. snicker snicker.
And then there is Vance, which is in the same state as Altus, which is why Oklahoma sucks. Fortunately OKC is inbetween to provide a buffer to Altus.
My opinion.
*no Oklahomans where hurt in the making of this post*