Beginner Starting ATP 100 hour fast track

Shivam Patel

New Member
Hey guys,
So I am 18 years old and I am having a little trouble. I was thinking of starting the ATP 180 day Fast track (100 hour) course and was wondering if it such a good idea starting young? I just wanted to find out what a typical day would be once I start this and how much commitment I really have to have. I have wanted to do this my whole life and wanted to start as soon as possible.

Thank you for the feedback
 
Mr.patel

Kem cho!

It seems like you have already made your decision on going to ATP. Former graduate here. Try looking into a different flight school such as Aviator. You did not specify where you are located or what location you are attending. Most of it is self study. Try to take your writtens before going to ATP.

Look into your local mom/pop flight school for your private at least.
 
Mr.patel

Kem cho!

It seems like you have already made your decision on going to ATP. Former graduate here. Try looking into a different flight school such as Aviator. You did not specify where you are located or what location you are attending. Most of it is self study. Try to take your writtens before going to ATP.

Look into your local mom/pop flight school for your private at least.
 
Well you have five years to build your 1500 hours as you're 18 and not getting an ATP until you're 23 (few exceptions for rATP coupled with 141 school and four year degree from them).

So why the rush to spend that kind of money if you have the time to wait?
 
ATP has a high checkride bust rate. You might score some good instructors but most want to get their hours and get the hell out. They make between 7 and 12 bucks a flight hour and get paid $0 for ground. That means zero incentive to go the extra mile if you don't understand something. Instructors are overworked and underpaid and unfortunately that trickles down to you, the student/customer. You are young with plenty of time. Go to a Mom and Pop school and actually enjoy the ride. There is no "Fun flying" at ATP. If you value being as safe and knowledgable pilot as possible do yourself a favor and stay away. Not a good idea to pay up front whoever you end up...by the way I speak from experience.
 
I would suggest going to college and train while you are in. Ultimately a degree will take you far in the aviation field and if flying does not work out for you the degree will be something good to fall back on. Preferably a degree that is non aviation related

If planned well and done right you could have a decent career by the time you are 23!
 
If you're only 18, I would not rush into a fast paced program like ATP (I am a graduate of the program). You have a lot of options. But above all else, at some point in your flying career (i.e. when its time to upgrade from a regional airline to a major), you will need a four year college degree. I would go to school and fly while you are in school. Get your private the first year, instrument the second, commercial the third, and maybe CFI and Multi-engine the fourth year of college. If you could graduate college with your CFI in hand, you'll be set. Instruct, get your 1500 and then go to a regional with a college degree in hand to fall back on. Also, it is recommended you get a degree in a non-aviation field (see prior statement "to fall back on"). With the new regulations, you will not be able to fly for an airline until you are 23 years old (barring a few special circumstances that require an aviation degree from an aviation school).

As a guy who went through the ATP program... Here is some basic information for you to consider if you're still considering going there. Don't let those who say you won't get good instruction at ATP sway you. Yes, it is a pilot mill and there are instructors there that are solely in it for the time build and don't provide the best quality instruction. But this is not the standard. I went to ATP in Richmond, VA in 2013. I started already having my Private Pilot cert which I earned at a local mom/pop shop. I had an excellent instructor for my private training, but I believe my ATP instructor was even better. He was fully invested in my success and the success of all his students. He spent lots of extra time doing ground training (which ATP instructors are not paid to do) and went above and beyond to make sure I was properly trained and prepared in all areas. Disclaimer: If you go to ATP, you must be ready to work you tail off. It is A LOT of self study. A decent-to-good instructor will help you with ground work, but not if you're aren't putting forth the effort and are studying significantly on your own. No one there will hold your hand. It is a VERY intense program that is fast paced. It requires 100% of your attention and focus. But it will get you your certificates quickly.... However, based on your age, you don't need them quickly. You have time, which is why if I were you, I would not go to ATP.

I had a great experience with ATP, but it isn't for everyone. I do not instruct for them... I could not afford what they pay their instructors (its really really bad). I currently instruct for a larger flight school with four locations in Northern Virginia. I am roughly 240 hours away from the ATP minimums and have interviewed with two airlines and secured offers at both. I will start training sometime this summer.

All in all... Go to college. Get a four year degree in an non-aviation related field that will give you options down the road should the economy tank again and pilots get furloughed. Earn your pilot certificates while in school and then when you graduate, you'll be set to be in the right seat of a jet by the time you turn 23. Also, do well in school. Your college transcripts won't be looked at when applying to regionals... But they will be looked at when going to a major airline and GPA matters (so I've been told).

Lastly, be weary of aviation colleges (ERAU, UND, etc...). Not that there is anything wrong with the education you would receive there (though, once again, you should look to earn a non-aviation related degree to fall back on), but they are insanely expensive. ATP isn't the most economical way to do it either, there you are paying for the speed of the program. However, aviation colleges/universities are way, way more expensive.

Lastly, college is awesome. Four of the most fun years of life.... I couldn't image not having gone.

That's my advice. Good luck!

Mike
 
I will echo what everyone else has said, go somewhere else. I'm also a former ATP graduate.

In the past ATP has required a few years of College or working equivalent. If this is still true you might not get in anyways.
 
I will echo what everyone else has said, go somewhere else. I'm also a former ATP graduate.

In the past ATP has required a few years of College or working equivalent. If this is still true you might not get in anyways.
ATP rejects people? All you have to do is show them the money and you can fly. Never read a thing about them caring about your institutional background....

Go to college, not ATP.
 
ATP rejects people? All you have to do is show them the money and you can fly. Never read a thing about them caring about your institutional background....

Go to college, not ATP.

Back in the day, you have to have college or 3 years working experience. When I went everyone there had met that requirement. I was one of the youngest when I went and I was 21. Im sure times have changed and anyone that can get the funds can get the training now.
 
ATP has the best website in the business. But you need to look past it. The promises are a bit empty. I think I count as an ATP grad? 0-hero instrument rating on a commercial single and multi cert, but I left before CFI/MEI/II. Take it from me. You could get better motivated instructors, less debt, better scheduling, and an infinitely more customer-friendly atmosphere outside of that corporation. I have other posts about them on here. You might not think those things are important now, but once you start training, believe me they will make a world of difference.
 
You need to have a solid aviation foundation to succeed at ATP. I came in with my PPL and Instrument which had already taught me plenty good study habits, because you are essentially on your own. I got lucky and had a great instructor for my CMEL, but my CSEL CFI was a fresh CFI who did not know how to teach Lazy 8's to save her life...she openly admitted as much during our first flight (where I also had to show her local checkpoints / etc). Long story short, look at a pt. 61 mom and pop school with a crusty 65 year old CFI who teaches because he enjoys it, not some 24 year old kid who is teaching because he has to. Your future aviation career will thank you later.
 
Regardless of where you go, you can never start too early. Getting the college degree is imperative / required. If you can do both at the same time you have beat the system in my opinion.

If I could do it again my goals would align in this order: zero / minimal debt > ATP by 23 years of age > college degree (going back to the first goal, find a community college to get an accredited associate degree on the cheap, then transfer to a better known college to finish the bachelors.)

In order to do those things you would need to get the ratings now so that you could fly while you are going to school. In my opinion, the degree can wait, but the flying can not; although, the degree can not be put off for long, and really, if you want to live life to the fullest, you would go to a nice school and enjoy yourself while you are young.

However you do it is up to you.

To answer your question a typical day at ATP is: wake up, study/fly, then fly/study, then study some more, go to bed. Repeat every **** day for 5-6 months, 8 to 12 hours a day. It is a grind and should be respected.
 
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Just finished ATP and if you don't treat it like a full time job and study on your own without the help of anyone else you're not going to pass. Going to ATP on a whim just because you want to be an airline pilot seems to be the norm with the school, but many people don't quite understand just how big of a deal it is to take on such a daunting task of attending a school like that. $80k in debt if you take the loan, being unemployed for a minimum of 6 months (most guys/gals finish in 8+ months), examiner fees, pilot gear and supplies, and retraining if you mess up... All those things add up and if you're not fully invested in the program then you're just wasting your time/money. Luckily for me I had previous flying experience, have a college degree, didn't have to take the loan, never failed a check ride or had to do any retraining, and had all the gear I needed before I started so it wasn't that difficult to get started in the program.

My advice is to go to college and get a degree first before anything else, then maybe get your private pilot license to really make sure you want to fly planes for a living before going all in with a career path that may or may not be for you. After that then make the decision on going to a school like ATP, but there's other options too ya know.... Lots and lots of others that are just as good, if not better, like ohhh I don't know, the military for example.

If you decide to go to ATP just treat it like a full time job, study your tail off, and if you take the housing do NOT be like all the other guys/gals who drink and party every day/night and turn into raging alcoholics... Still not sure why people think as soon as they become a pilot they have to drink like college kids and risk their potential future careers on the line.

Anyway good luck either way!
 
...but my CSEL CFI was a fresh CFI who did not know how to teach Lazy 8's to save her life...she openly admitted as much during our first flight (where I also had to show her local checkpoints / etc)...

The EXACT and thing happened with me. She told me she had no idea what I was doing right/wrong. Pretty sure she still has no idea how to properly perform and teach the maneuver!
 
ATP has the best website in the business. But you need to look past it. The promises are a bit empty. I think I count as an ATP grad? 0-hero instrument rating on a commercial single and multi cert, but I left before CFI/MEI/II. Take it from me. You could get better motivated instructors, less debt, better scheduling, and an infinitely more customer-friendly atmosphere outside of that corporation. I have other posts about them on here. You might not think those things are important now, but once you start training, believe me they will make a world of difference.

Hey Barbie,

Could you be more specific on how you pursued your training at ATP? Did you pay up front for one of the accelerated programs and then leave after the crew training and get your money back from the CFI programs? I wasn't aware that they offered a tailored program; just packages. Just curious what the options are. I already have my Pvt SEL; need Instrument and MEL.

Thanks in advance for the info.
 
Hey Barbie,

Could you be more specific on how you pursued your training at ATP? Did you pay up front for one of the accelerated programs and then leave after the crew training and get your money back from the CFI programs? I wasn't aware that they offered a tailored program; just packages. Just curious what the options are. I already have my Pvt SEL; need Instrument and MEL.

Thanks in advance for the info.
Brother, you looked right past what Barbie said about debt / motivated instructors etc. I got lucky with a really good MEI who got me up to my commercial multi checkride, then he left to finish time building with a survey operation, and thus began the revolving door of 3 instructors who I had to deal with to get me CSEL add on. One of them was a very nice girl right out of standz, On our first flight (her second in the area) I had to show her all the reporting points / unique things about our airport. That doesn't really bug me, but the fact that she literally said "I could barely do lazy 8's, I'm really bad at them" while we were headed out to the practice area to work on said maneuver.

99% of the CFI's @ ATP are building hours, and you as the student are merely a means to an end. That's not to say you won't come across some good ones, but know their prime motivation is the airlines, not necessarily the quality of the instruction you just paid an assload (you can totally say ass here) for. The only reason I went to ATP was because I had the Post 9-11 GI Bill paying for it, so it literally cost me zilch to get my PPL Multi add-on, CMEL / CSEL. I left before starting the CFI route.

A good Pt. 61 school is probably a better way to go. Will it be a little slower? Yes. Will you learn a lot more and how to be a more well rounded pilot at a Pt. 61 operation? YES!

I was fortunate to have had my PPL / Instrument already from a smaller school out in Arizona before ATP. I knew what was expected in checkrides and how important self study really was. ATP CFI's do not have time to spoon feed you. It's all on you home slice. Please don't let the quick time carrot blind you.
 
Brother, you looked right past what Barbie said about debt / motivated instructors etc. I got lucky with a really good MEI who got me up to my commercial multi checkride, then he left to finish time building with a survey operation, and thus began the revolving door of 3 instructors who I had to deal with to get me CSEL add on. One of them was a very nice girl right out of standz, On our first flight (her second in the area) I had to show her all the reporting points / unique things about our airport. That doesn't really bug me, but the fact that she literally said "I could barely do lazy 8's, I'm really bad at them" while we were headed out to the practice area to work on said maneuver.

99% of the CFI's @ ATP are building hours, and you as the student are merely a means to an end. That's not to say you won't come across some good ones, but know their prime motivation is the airlines, not necessarily the quality of the instruction you just paid an assload (you can totally say ass here) for. The only reason I went to ATP was because I had the Post 9-11 GI Bill paying for it, so it literally cost me zilch to get my PPL Multi add-on, CMEL / CSEL. I left before starting the CFI route.

A good Pt. 61 school is probably a better way to go. Will it be a little slower? Yes. Will you learn a lot more and how to be a more well rounded pilot at a Pt. 61 operation? YES!

I was fortunate to have had my PPL / Instrument already from a smaller school out in Arizona before ATP. I knew what was expected in checkrides and how important self study really was. ATP CFI's do not have time to spoon feed you. It's all on you home slice. Please don't let the quick time carrot blind you.

Thanks for the response Ozzie.

I didn't overlook his or your advice regarding ATP and I agree with you both regarding the expense and the possibility of getting an instructor who doesn't truly care about their student's success.

I was just curious about how he structured his training because my understanding was that you pretty much had to select a career "program" because they don't offer "piece-by-piece" training. Since he left after receiving his commercial ratings I was wondering if he pre-paid and then received a refund for the CFI portion or if he planned to leave at that point from the onset.

Just curious.
 
Hey Barbie,

Could you be more specific on how you pursued your training at ATP? Did you pay up front for one of the accelerated programs and then leave after the crew training and get your money back from the CFI programs? I wasn't aware that they offered a tailored program; just packages. Just curious what the options are. I already have my Pvt SEL; need Instrument and MEL.

Thanks in advance for the info.
Yep - everyone pays up front for a whole program. I ignored all the advice and planned to do everything through CFI, CFII, MEI there, but the instruction was so poor for CFI that I left. I received no money back. Everyone pays up front, and they get a "discount" on the instruction, so that if you cash out early they multiply the hours flown by some ridiculous number and then use the following formula to screw you.

(up front payment amount) - (hours flown x crazy rate) = refund (usually zero)
 
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