Be careful who you split time with....

alphaone

alphaone

Well-Known Member
So today I was splitting time with some private pilot working toward his instrument when I discovered in flight that he: does not want to do a mag check, cannot track to a VOR, does not know anything about IFR flight or instrument approaches, does not respond to my kind tips to improve his flying, and the last straw.....does not go around when I tell him to and almost causes an accident after his completely unstable never lined up with the runway approach.
I think it's time to find a new flying partner.....
Kind of sad someone like this has a pilot's license. I bet some CFI's out there have some stories of students trying to kill them?
Add another rule into the bag of experience.....'be careful who you split time with'
 
alphaone said:
So today I was splitting time with some private pilot working toward his instrument when I discovered in flight that he: does not want to do a mag check, cannot track to a VOR, does not know anything about IFR flight or instrument approaches, does not respond to my kind tips to improve his flying, and the last straw.....does not go around when I tell him to and almost causes an accident after his completely unstable never lined up with the runway approach.
I think it's time to find a new flying partner.....
Kind of sad someone like this has a pilot's license. I bet some CFI's out there have some stories of students trying to kill them?
Add another rule into the bag of experience.....'be careful who you split time with'
Click to expand...

Yep you are right! I learned this myself in a similar fashion. The ticket is a "license to learn'. It doesn't mean that everyone is up to PTS or your safety standards.
 
I was acting as a safety pilot for a guy who's already instrument rated and has a commercial.

Let's put it like this. If we were out flying together and someone had to shoot an approach to mins, I'd choose me -- even though it'd be illegal since I'm not instrument rated.

I have no idea how he passed his rides. That was some of the most terrifying flying I've ever been subjected to.

Of course, I subjected Timbuff to some terror. :D
 
tonyw said:
I was acting as a safety pilot for a guy who's already instrument rated and has a commercial.

Let's put it like this. If we were out flying together and someone had to shoot an approach to mins, I'd choose me -- even though it'd be illegal since I'm not instrument rated.

I have no idea how he passed his rides. That was some of the most terrifying flying I've ever been subjected to.

Of course, I subjected Timbuff to some terror. :D
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I hope you aren't talking about me in that first part... I remember flying a hold with you that I royally screwed up.

You were doing fine though Tony. Speaking of which, are you getting ready for that checkride soon? Your skills were looking good to me.

Alphaone: Get used to that kind of flying if you want to be a CFI. You just have to be one step ahead of the other guy. Usually if you are the observer it is pretty easy to be ahead as you can think a bit more clearly.
 
As much as you say might be true, maybe you should just let the guy fly. If his VOR and instrument skills suck, that is why you are there, so he can practice.

His landings, are another story, however.
 
Timbuff10 said:
I hope you aren't talking about me in that first part... I remember flying a hold with you that I royally screwed up.
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No, dude, not you. This guy scared the crap out of me. I was like, what the hell are you doing...you're below the MDA and still descending and you're not adding power to come back up....aww, screw it, my airplane.

You messed up on the hold, but we were never at any risk of smacking anything. And my flying was far from perfect!
 
alphaone said:
So today I was splitting time with some private pilot working toward his instrument when I discovered in flight that he: does not want to do a mag check, cannot track to a VOR, does not know anything about IFR flight or instrument approaches, does not respond to my kind tips to improve his flying, and the last straw.....does not go around when I tell him to and almost causes an accident after his completely unstable never lined up with the runway approach.
I think it's time to find a new flying partner.....
Kind of sad someone like this has a pilot's license. I bet some CFI's out there have some stories of students trying to kill them?
Add another rule into the bag of experience.....'be careful who you split time with'
Click to expand...

Hiya, not trying to sound like an ass, but why would anyone want to be doing magneto checks in-flight?

In flight would be the last place to ever want to check this, doing so could possibly cause problems.

It sounds more careless to actually take off without doing a mag check and since you physically sat and observed this and yet did nothing about it and took off anyway,.. well I would blame you just as much.*

*I could however be reading this wrong and perhaps you did correct him / her and did carry out a magneto check at run-up, it's just hard to tell from your message.

Second, the pilot as you said is a private pilot. As such, why would he know or be expected to know about IFR flight or flying instrument approaches?

Sure he may have had his 3 hours of basic instrument instruction, but that by all means doesn't make me feel as a CFI/CFII/MEI that he'd be expected to carry out instrument approaches etc.

Lastly, are you sure that the way you were giving him advice was actually in friendly / approachable / and instructional way?

Just thoughts here, but he / she may have felt that because you are not an authority, (ie, CFI) that they didn't want to listen to your "advice" etc.

-Joe
飞行教员在河北石家庄中国。
 
perpetual said:
Hiya, not trying to sound like an ass, but why would anyone want to be doing magneto checks in-flight?

In flight would be the last place to ever want to check this, doing so could possibly cause problems.

It sounds more careless to actually take off without doing a mag check and since you physically sat and observed this and yet did nothing about it and took off anyway,.. well I would blame you just as much.*

*I could however be reading this wrong and perhaps you did correct him / her and did carry out a magneto check at run-up, it's just hard to tell from your message.

Second, the pilot as you said is a private pilot. As such, why would he know or be expected to know about IFR flight or flying instrument approaches?

Sure he may have had his 3 hours of basic instrument instruction, but that by all means doesn't make me feel as a CFI/CFII/MEI that he'd be expected to carry out instrument approaches etc.

Lastly, are you sure that the way you were giving him advice was actually in friendly / approachable / and instructional way?

Just thoughts here, but he / she may have felt that because you are not an authority, (ie, CFI) that they didn't want to listen to your "advice" etc.

-Joe
飞行教员在河北石家庄中国。
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Sorry, I wasn't clear. He didn't do a mag check before we took off. I meant by in flight as in after the engine was started. When we flew he did not know how to track to VOR or fly an airway. He said he had flown approaches before, but really did not know anything about flying one. He didn't even wear the foggles while flying. I'm just saying it was a culmination of things showing to me he was not the kind of guy I want to spend time in the air. And, even if all this stuff was shady on my part, he definitely almost had an accident on landing.
I think it was a fair judgement on my part to decide not to fly with him again. I may not have articulated it well, but I think it's clear when somebody crosses the line of safety.
 
Well I guess that you know from now on to observe and verify what others do when you are in the cockpit with them.

Also, don't ever let someone take you for their ride, I.e,.. if they are doing something unsafe, tell them about it (professionally) as it is occurring and correct the situation.

Lastly, worry about dealing with them (professionally) after you land if possible. By giving a solid reason with references as to what they may have been doing wrong and also the effects of their actions could have brought may be just the thing that corrects their future actions.

-Joe
飞行教员在河北石家庄中国。
 
alphaone said:
and the last straw.....does not go around when I tell him to and almost causes an accident after his completely unstable never lined up with the runway approach.
Click to expand...

I have a personal rule when I fly with another pilot. I tell them that if they are uncomfortable with any segment of my approach, they should tell me immediatly to go around and I will do so without hesitation. Hasn't happened yet, but I think it adds comfort to the situation by giving them some additional control.
 
This story is a good reminder for why one should clearly specify who and under what circumstances that person will be acting as PIC during the flight.

When flying as a safety pilot, I always made it clear I was the PIC only during the time the pilot was wearing a hood--otherwise, they were the acting PIC. If they botched a landing or busted somebody's airspace when they had the hood off, I didn't want to have anything to do with the responsibility.

Also, to add a positive note to this thread...for every horrible pilot you run across, you'll also find some who are real joys to fly with. You can just "click" with them and work great as a team together. I made a few friends that way during my training. I'd find a partner I liked to split time with and we'd log a lot of hours together. We had very similar decision making skills, we were both safety-minded without being overly cautious, we split cockpit duties evenly, etc. It got to the point with one guy where I'd know pretty much what he wanted from me and vice versa for him...we'd set radios, pull approach plates, run checklists, etc. for each other, without getting in each others' way, and it made flying so easy. It was like we both knew what was going through the other one's mind without saying anything. When you find that kind of person to work with, cross countries really get to be a blast.
 
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