#BaseClosing and Displacement

ClearedForOption

ClearedForOption

Displaced... again.
So, my shop is closing my base and opening a new base 20 miles up the road. Even though the new base has been a co-terminal of closing base for years, it wasn't the "BASE" per the contract and this drives a re-bid for all of the closing based based pilots. It also opens up the new base to everyone in a company-wide bid. All this being said, I'm getting displaced and won't be able to hold my current seat in the new base. (The only reason I was able to get it in the first place is because I was able to 'base trade' six years before I would naturally hold it through retirements and attrition. Which is a long and supposedly controversial story that boils down to: I read the contract.) The political solution also failed. That was a hail-mary anyway... Got more traction than I thought it would.

Anyhoo, I'd love to hear the thoughts of the JC collective. WWYD? Family is staying in SoCal, for now. At least the next year.

In a displacement I'm allowed to 'bump and flush' anyone to junior to me in the bid. My choices are: Fort North Miami, Baaaaaastin, New Ork City, and Disney World with a transcon commute thrown in for good measure. Disney is not a good commute option, all offline. Permanent reserve.

New Ork is the easiest, although I did that for almost 5 years and am kinda over it. I'm a lineholder in all of the bases except Disney. (That one is as senior as my current domicile.) At least I was a lineholder pre-covid. I'm also sick of crashpad life, so wherever I end up I'm planning on getting a pied-a-terre/investment place. (That the family can visit/use also while I sit on reserve. Or not, up to them. I just don't want to share an apartment with 14 dudes anymore.) Trip mix is best out of the North East. But Winter/Summer storms... irops... getting stuck... and the cost of living. North Miami has S. America trips, which I haven't done yet. And that actually sounds fun.

I've been driving to work for the last year and was planning on doing so for the rest of my career. I was finally decompressed from the toil that the transcon commute was taking on me at the first of the year. Getting healthy. Now I've gone and gained my COVID-19. Too much time to think about cooking gourmet stuff.

So, where would be a good place to invest in? I'm trying to think my way through all the angles here before the displacement bid comes out in the next two months. I'm pretty emotionally invested in the whole issue, so I know that I'm not thinking straight. Hoping that the family will be willing to move someday. I love SoCal as much as anyone, but it really costs way too much to live here for nice weather and a view. I'm leaning towards FL... but don't know the area that well. Finding something that is driving distance to work and decent area. What's a good place to buy into and not... (What's with the whole country-club real estate seems-like-a-scam thing?)

So, yeah... I could use some other perspectives.
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
I’ve been hoping for a hurricane to wipe out my boat for an insurance payout for years. Never works out. :)
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When I had my first job as a lone guy in Louisville there was a pretty severe storm blowing in so we went out to make sure all the planes on the FBO ramp were tied down good. Went out to this one plane and the owner got all pissy. He jumped in and took off with a flight plan filed to another airport in the path of the storm.
 
A physical option... yes.

Financially, not ideal. Professionally... the same.

On the financial side, it's a 35-38% pay cut. At guarantee. SoCal isn't cheap and even though we are debt free except for our mortgage I am doing retirement catch-up, kids are expensive, etc. etc. It would be doable if I'm involuntarily downgraded, but not part of our master plan. It's kind of even a stretch to be able to save/get ahead on guarantee. Throw COVID and the stock market into the mix... it would be great for my mental health. Just not the financial health.

Or professionally. I took the 1st upgrade. And I've been in the left seat for 5 years now. (I fly 400-500 on reserve, just cracked 2K recently.) Going back to being a chameleon in a super senior base... oi! You ever read 4 day follies? Honestly, I like my job from the left. It's challenging. And I'm good at it. I get a lot of feedback complementing my 'style.' (You know... laid back, standard... :)) It was weird at first, but then it kept happening. I don't know if it was my freight background, a career of good examples, or just reading Heinlein novels.

If forced to, I'll go back. If not, I honestly would prefer not to. The schedules kinda stink on the west coast. Disproportionate red eye flying, no international, lots of rinse and repeat trips. Which was fine driving to work... but not with a massive pay cut, having to hustle, and fly with all of the personalities.

I know, hashtag firstworldproblems, right...
 
ClearedForOption said:
So, my shop is closing my base and opening a new base 20 miles up the road. Even though the new base has been a co-terminal of closing base for years, it wasn't the "BASE" per the contract and this drives a re-bid for all of the closing based based pilots. It also opens up the new base to everyone in a company-wide bid. All this being said, I'm getting displaced and won't be able to hold my current seat in the new base. (The only reason I was able to get it in the first place is because I was able to 'base trade' six years before I would naturally hold it through retirements and attrition. Which is a long and supposedly controversial story that boils down to: I read the contract.) The political solution also failed. That was a hail-mary anyway... Got more traction than I thought it would.

Anyhoo, I'd love to hear the thoughts of the JC collective. WWYD? Family is staying in SoCal, for now. At least the next year.

In a displacement I'm allowed to 'bump and flush' anyone to junior to me in the bid. My choices are: Fort North Miami, Baaaaaastin, New Ork City, and Disney World with a transcon commute thrown in for good measure. Disney is not a good commute option, all offline. Permanent reserve.

New Ork is the easiest, although I did that for almost 5 years and am kinda over it. I'm a lineholder in all of the bases except Disney. (That one is as senior as my current domicile.) At least I was a lineholder pre-covid. I'm also sick of crashpad life, so wherever I end up I'm planning on getting a pied-a-terre/investment place. (That the family can visit/use also while I sit on reserve. Or not, up to them. I just don't want to share an apartment with 14 dudes anymore.) Trip mix is best out of the North East. But Winter/Summer storms... irops... getting stuck... and the cost of living. North Miami has S. America trips, which I haven't done yet. And that actually sounds fun.

I've been driving to work for the last year and was planning on doing so for the rest of my career. I was finally decompressed from the toil that the transcon commute was taking on me at the first of the year. Getting healthy. Now I've gone and gained my COVID-19. Too much time to think about cooking gourmet stuff.

So, where would be a good place to invest in? I'm trying to think my way through all the angles here before the displacement bid comes out in the next two months. I'm pretty emotionally invested in the whole issue, so I know that I'm not thinking straight. Hoping that the family will be willing to move someday. I love SoCal as much as anyone, but it really costs way too much to live here for nice weather and a view. I'm leaning towards FL... but don't know the area that well. Finding something that is driving distance to work and decent area. What's a good place to buy into and not... (What's with the whole country-club real estate seems-like-a-scam thing?)

So, yeah... I could use some other perspectives.
Click to expand...

I have nothing :(

I’m bothered that LAX isn’t considered ”co terminal“ with LAX.

I’d go BOS or JFK because you can fly into one and get to the other with not that much hassle.
 
ClearedForOption said:
That actually might be a good idea, although I know nothing about boats other than the "two greatest days..." I'll have to look at slip costs and such. The economics probably won't work out.
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JordanD said:
Not to mention a good chance every year of losing it in a hurricane
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I can see it on the news now. "Florida man blown from Fort Lauderdale to Bahamas during failed attempts to moor boat during a hurricane while wearing a blue boat captain's uniform."
 
@ClearedForOption, will you hold a line at any of the other bases? Think about after August where all airlines bookings and schedules are sinking. I think you are a 2011 hire like myself and I couldn’t hold a line in JFK/BOS and barely one in FLL. Forget about MCO. That might adjust your thinking into this.
 
Soul Brotha' said:
@ClearedForOption, will you hold a line at any of the other bases? Think about after August where all airlines bookings and schedules are sinking. I think you are a 2011 hire like myself and I couldn’t hold a line in JFK/BOS and barely one in FLL. Forget about MCO. That might adjust your thinking into this.
Click to expand...

Yep... Mid 2011. I'm at 47%ish, just recently checked. I took the first upgrade in JFK so I've been on reserve for basically my whole career. 1 yr in JFK, 3 in LGB, 4 in JFK, and now 1 back in LGB. (and was projecting another 8 more on reserve till enough came in below me in LGB) I've held a couple of random lines; vacation, training, and such. I was a lineholder as an FO my last couple of months in LGB before training. And right before I got my trade to LGB I was holding a schedule during heavy block months. I've never done LCR, only SCR. By the time all that kicked in during implementation, I was able to hold lines in JFK and then BANG! I got my so-called 'contraversial' base trade to LGB because I knew the contract. I have no idea how the LCR reserve system works in the practical sense because I'll i've ever done is short call in a crashpad or at home. Most of my reserve in JFK was under the FSM rules, which I was able to make work for me using pref bid. I know LCR gets called first with known opentime so i've been watching patterns of how much people are flying.

Here's the weird thing about MCO... the seniority list shows MCO Capt's that are junior to us, instructors, but they aren't listed in PVBM. That's kind of out as a choice for displacement for me anyway... the commute is all off line. If it wasn't, it would be a great place to get a vacation condo/crashpad.

We had 3 a day to FLL. I think we still do out of LAX. Decent departure times. (it's not the 12/day we had peak JFK-LAX of which I only used maybe 4 consistently) FLL is commutable. I haven't been called out for an assignment since March. Did recurrent in May so I'm good for a little longer on landings.

Honestly, if I'm going to go back to the east coast, I figured I'd try FLL on Long Call. Putting in for a line every month and rolling the dice on that. Lots of professional reserves in FLL, and I don't care about weekends off other than as a commodity to improve my schedule. And I could always base trade up to the north east if it just doesn't work out. I've kept track of the base trade list every now and then to see if people want to go from N to S and remember seeing names every now and then. Now that we can do more than 6 in a row my commuter strategy has always been long blocks, long blocks off.

And then we have the 220 and the whole SQ thing that's probably going to be on the system bid in a couple of weeks... that'll change some behaviors. Since the 220 in a whole 'new base' thing. Triggering moving costs, etc.

I haven't flown into our South America destinations, even though I used to go there when I was at Southern. I'd like to check those landings off the box. At least it's something different than back to the grind in JFK and trying to find something good out of a bad choice. The same thing with Europe. If i'm going to fly unproductinve 15 hour double red eye 3 days... might as well to be to where I can walk on Abby Road. I'm making a WAG that because of productivity that the SQ carveout will probably go somewhat junior. Unless people want to be 'International Narrow Body Captains.' Seems like a lot of extra work for less pay and time off. Unless you are junior and that's what you get anyway.

But who knows, will we only have one displacement? What's happening after 30 April next year? My crystal ball is broken.
 
ClearedForOption said:
Yep... Mid 2011. I'm at 47%ish, just recently checked. I took the first upgrade in JFK so I've been on reserve for basically my whole career. 1 yr in JFK, 3 in LGB, 4 in JFK, and now 1 back in LGB. (and was projecting another 8 more on reserve till enough came in below me in LGB) I've held a couple of random lines; vacation, training, and such. I was a lineholder as an FO my last couple of months in LGB before training. And right before I got my trade to LGB I was holding a schedule during heavy block months. I've never done LCR, only SCR. By the time all that kicked in during implementation, I was able to hold lines in JFK and then BANG! I got my so-called 'contraversial' base trade to LGB because I knew the contract. I have no idea how the LCR reserve system works in the practical sense because I'll i've ever done is short call in a crashpad or at home. Most of my reserve in JFK was under the FSM rules, which I was able to make work for me using pref bid. I know LCR gets called first with known opentime so i've been watching patterns of how much people are flying.

Here's the weird thing about MCO... the seniority list shows MCO Capt's that are junior to us, instructors, but they aren't listed in PVBM. That's kind of out as a choice for displacement for me anyway... the commute is all off line. If it wasn't, it would be a great place to get a vacation condo/crashpad.

We had 3 a day to FLL. I think we still do out of LAX. Decent departure times. (it's not the 12/day we had peak JFK-LAX of which I only used maybe 4 consistently) FLL is commutable. I haven't been called out for an assignment since March. Did recurrent in May so I'm good for a little longer on landings.

Honestly, if I'm going to go back to the east coast, I figured I'd try FLL on Long Call. Putting in for a line every month and rolling the dice on that. Lots of professional reserves in FLL, and I don't care about weekends off other than as a commodity to improve my schedule. And I could always base trade up to the north east if it just doesn't work out. I've kept track of the base trade list every now and then to see if people want to go from N to S and remember seeing names every now and then. Now that we can do more than 6 in a row my commuter strategy has always been long blocks, long blocks off.

And then we have the 220 and the whole SQ thing that's probably going to be on the system bid in a couple of weeks... that'll change some behaviors. Since the 220 in a whole 'new base' thing. Triggering moving costs, etc.

I haven't flown into our South America destinations, even though I used to go there when I was at Southern. I'd like to check those landings off the box. At least it's something different than back to the grind in JFK and trying to find something good out of a bad choice. The same thing with Europe. If i'm going to fly unproductinve 15 hour double red eye 3 days... might as well to be to where I can walk on Abby Road. I'm making a WAG that because of productivity that the SQ carveout will probably go somewhat junior. Unless people want to be 'International Narrow Body Captains.' Seems like a lot of extra work for less pay and time off. Unless you are junior and that's what you get anyway.

But who knows, will we only have one displacement? What's happening after 30 April next year? My crystal ball is broken.
Click to expand...

If there's another displacement on April 30th all is lost.
 
ClearedForOption said:
So, my shop is closing my base and opening a new base 20 miles up the road. Even though the new base has been a co-terminal of closing base for years, it wasn't the "BASE" per the contract and this drives a re-bid for all of the closing based based pilots. It also opens up the new base to everyone in a company-wide bid. All this being said, I'm getting displaced and won't be able to hold my current seat in the new base. (The only reason I was able to get it in the first place is because I was able to 'base trade' six years before I would naturally hold it through retirements and attrition. Which is a long and supposedly controversial story that boils down to: I read the contract.) The political solution also failed. That was a hail-mary anyway... Got more traction than I thought it would.

Anyhoo, I'd love to hear the thoughts of the JC collective. WWYD? Family is staying in SoCal, for now. At least the next year.

In a displacement I'm allowed to 'bump and flush' anyone to junior to me in the bid. My choices are: Fort North Miami, Baaaaaastin, New Ork City, and Disney World with a transcon commute thrown in for good measure. Disney is not a good commute option, all offline. Permanent reserve.

New Ork is the easiest, although I did that for almost 5 years and am kinda over it. I'm a lineholder in all of the bases except Disney. (That one is as senior as my current domicile.) At least I was a lineholder pre-covid. I'm also sick of crashpad life, so wherever I end up I'm planning on getting a pied-a-terre/investment place. (That the family can visit/use also while I sit on reserve. Or not, up to them. I just don't want to share an apartment with 14 dudes anymore.) Trip mix is best out of the North East. But Winter/Summer storms... irops... getting stuck... and the cost of living. North Miami has S. America trips, which I haven't done yet. And that actually sounds fun.

I've been driving to work for the last year and was planning on doing so for the rest of my career. I was finally decompressed from the toil that the transcon commute was taking on me at the first of the year. Getting healthy. Now I've gone and gained my COVID-19. Too much time to think about cooking gourmet stuff.

So, where would be a good place to invest in? I'm trying to think my way through all the angles here before the displacement bid comes out in the next two months. I'm pretty emotionally invested in the whole issue, so I know that I'm not thinking straight. Hoping that the family will be willing to move someday. I love SoCal as much as anyone, but it really costs way too much to live here for nice weather and a view. I'm leaning towards FL... but don't know the area that well. Finding something that is driving distance to work and decent area. What's a good place to buy into and not... (What's with the whole country-club real estate seems-like-a-scam thing?)

So, yeah... I could use some other perspectives.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that. Been there, had the shoes, but I could only do 2 months of commuting NY to LA. I can't believe you've done this 5 yrs (though commuting to reserve is vastly different than commuting to fly a line). Sorry this is happening, best of luck and let us know what you decide and end up doing.
 
jtrain609 said:
If there's another displacement on April 30th all is lost.
Click to expand...

There is no way the industry is "only" going to be 20% smaller by next summer which is what most carriers seem to be planning on doing. Even if a vaccine comes by January, it's gonna take time to get it out to everyone and not everyone is going to come back on planes. TSA numbers right now in the busy months show 500-800k pax a day which is 20-25% of traffic levels from same time last year. Sept-Oct I can imagine it cratering even lower and 1st Q will be horrendous (1st quarter is usually horrendous even when things are good).

I fully expect one big round of cuts on Oct 1 and then another big round of cut somewhere around Spring next year. IATA already said 2024 until recovery. We are screwed for a loooong time to come. I don't think it's really sunk into people just how hosed we really are - and I don't mean just the airline industry.
 
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