Banner towing regulations
- Thread starter CFI A&P
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N18040
Well-Known Member
The company I work for did some banner towing before I was here, and a few months ago I did some research about getting back into it. I know that who can train someone depends on your waiver. I believe the person that we had on our waiver that could give the signoffs did not even have a commercial rating.
I talked to the FSDO about using a Citabria for banner towing that we were also going to have available for rent and tailwheel training. They had no problem with this, and said it did not need to be restricted category provided whatever modifications we made were airworthy, whether that was by STC, field approval, or whatever.
Joe Gremlin
Well-Known Member
You need a waiver from your FSDO for both your pilot and your aircraft. Specific requirements can vary from FSDO to FSDO. Pilot needs to be commercial if you're towing for hire. Some FSDO's specify requirements for trainers and then give those trainers the ability to issue waivers. Other FSDO's don't care as much who conducts the training but a real live fed from the FSDO is the only one who can issue the waiver. And that requires the real live fed to take a field day out of the office, pack his fishing pole and drive out to the banner field. Once there, the fed watches the pilot do 3 pickups and drops, shakes the pilots hand, gives him the waiver and says good luck in your future. Then it off to the fishing hole for the rest of the day. 
As for aircraft, no FSDO that I'm aware of automatically requires banner planes to operate in the restricted category. Some companies place their planes in the restricted category on purpose because it gives them more leeway in terms of modifications and such. But there are lots of banner planes out there that don't say restricted on the side.
As for aircraft, no FSDO that I'm aware of automatically requires banner planes to operate in the restricted category. Some companies place their planes in the restricted category on purpose because it gives them more leeway in terms of modifications and such. But there are lots of banner planes out there that don't say restricted on the side.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
You need a waiver from your FSDO for both your pilot and your aircraft. Specific requirements can vary from FSDO to FSDO. Pilot needs to be commercial if you're towing for hire. Some FSDO's specify requirements for trainers and then give those trainers the ability to issue waivers. Other FSDO's don't care as much who conducts the training but a real live fed from the FSDO is the only one who can issue the waiver. And that requires the real live fed to take a field day out of the office, pack his fishing pole and drive out to the banner field. Once there, the fed watches the pilot do 3 pickups and drops, shakes the pilots hand, gives him the waiver and says good luck in your future. Then it off to the fishing hole for the rest of the day.
As for aircraft, no FSDO that I'm aware of automatically requires banner planes to operate in the restricted category. Some companies place their planes in the restricted category on purpose because it gives them more leeway in terms of modifications and such. But there are lots of banner planes out there that don't say restricted on the side.
Thanks Joe. I've haven't pulled banners before, but I may try to in the near future. Before diving head first into a new endeavor, I'd like to know the regulations and limitations. The advisory circular is pretty detailed, but the regulations are not as clear. Since I'd be the PIC receiving a registered letter if something wasn't kosher.
Also, I've met pilots before that had some sort of an endorsment on their certificate with the lingo along the line of "Authorized for Glider/ Aero-tow operations..." What's that about, if endorsements are only in logbooks?
tlewis95
I drive planes
Im pretty sure that for glider towing, all that is required is an endorsement from an instructor saying that you have been trained to do it. That usually includes a few simulated or actual tows and some ground.
I'll let you know on Sunday after I get my tow endorsement what all we had to do.
I'll let you know on Sunday after I get my tow endorsement what all we had to do.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Doesn't need to be from an instructor, mine was from a PPL.
Efficient, I like it. We should just let PPLs sign off for every endorsement, sure would speed things up a little.
Joe Gremlin
Well-Known Member
That's required if you're going to tow gliders. It has absolutely nothing to do with towing banners though. See 61.69.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
In the US, it is just a logbook endorsement, not on a certificate. Anyone that already has it can give it to you (at least a PPL-ASEL). Ideally, you should have a CFI-G do the endorsement for you. There are some other requirements (100 TT, 3 glider flights in the last year, all in the FARs). Your insurance company will almost certainly want more experience though.
Banner towing is totally different, waiver from the FSDO, both for pilot and the operation. Though if you have a ton of Pawnee/Citabria glider towing time, I can't imagine the banner tow training taking very long.
Joe Gremlin
Well-Known Member
It doesn't take very long if you know how to teach it (just like everything else I guess). But I don't think pawnee/citabria glider towing time would make much of difference in the amount of time the training would take.
Banner training is all about pickups and drops. I've seen nothing in my glider experience that would translate as far as pickups and drops go. The actual towing part is similar, but typically I spent all of about 5 minutes in the plane and maybe 10 minutes on the ground going over what needed to be taught about the actual tow. The rest of the 10 hours or so was all pickups and drops.
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
Man, what a necro-post. Yeah, I have done some banner towing since. No endorsement in the logbook or on the certificate. Did some ground school with the operator, followed by a few practice pick ups and lastly demonstrated pickups and release with a FSDO rep present. Not too big of a deal. Also, you can't fail the observation, because there isn't an 8710 involved. Just keep trying until the inspector goes home or you run out of sunlight.
Since that post I learned of a friend's grandfather that had aerotow and self launch written on their certificate. I guess something like that was more common or even required back in the 40s & 50s. At one time he had a motorglider that was a self-launch with retracting propeller and also a Birdog that he used for towing his own glider and with the local club. I also remember something about him having a self launch winch system, but I don't remember the details of that.
Inverted25
Well-Known Member
If we are talking about gliders here you must have a endorsement for the type of launch your going to do.
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mightynimbus
Well-Known Member
wut?
ahw01
Well-Known Member
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