Bangor Maine - private jet w/8 crash

DropTank said:
When CANADA has a problem with icing, in a FRAKKING Dash-8...
It means there is a systemic problem with the entire program.
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No, that means that someone wasn't paying any attention. At all.

Aviation requires adulting. Sadly lacking these days.
 
Richman said:
Aviation requires adulting. Sadly lacking these days.
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I agree but I think that actually proves the effectiveness of the operational controls and training under 121…that’s where the vast majority of cringe that I get served seems to work and they’re not crashing planes.
 
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adk said:
It's pretty apparent that these pilots used the "light snow" category of their holdover table. I assume that they did this because the METAR said "light snow." It's pretty apparent that they were unaware that they should have gone to the separate "Snowfall Intensities as a Function of Prevailing Visibility" chart to figure out that even though the METAR said "light snow" the deicing holdover tables considered it to be Moderate snow based on temperature and visibility.

So, one human factors issue I think would be an easy fix: in the holdover tables, stop using terms to describe the snow that also appear in the METAR but do not directly correlate. In the holdover tables, call it something else. Maybe snowfall intensity 1-4 instead of very light to heavy snow? I don't know. But something. Not knowing that "light snow doesn't always mean light snow" seems like a predictable and preventable error for crews who don't deice often.
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That's honestly a really elegant solution. There are gaps in training in every operation, and not intermingling terms is a super easy fix.
 
pwttogfk said:
Amen! Related, whoever at IAD thinks it’s a good procedure to send GA half across the airport and have us contacting the airline ramps must really like the entertainment we provide a few times a year.
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I just recently screwed this up. He told us to pass behind the 737 and taxi on Y to 30. We thought and followed the 737 on Z. Luckily we were able to cross over and not snarl traffic waiting to enter the ramp. That one is going to stick with me for a while.
 
Cessnaflyer said:
I just recently screwed this up. He told us to pass behind the 737 and taxi on Y to 30. We thought and followed the 737 on Z. Luckily we were able to cross over and not snarl traffic waiting to enter the ramp. That one is going to stick with me for a while.
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There's this thing that ramp makes you do A (where you have a straight shot across the lanes to Y) A2 to B for no reason. There aren't an pushbacks happening, no opposite traffic and most unecessary.
 
KLB said:
There's this thing that ramp makes you do A (where you have a straight shot across the lanes to Y) A2 to B for no reason. There aren't an pushbacks happening, no opposite traffic and most unecessary.
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Yeah ours was A A4 B. We thought Y was for opposite direction traffic when we read back the pass behind part.
 
If only there was a runway right by the GA side and a really big sky to launch into. But I’m just a minimally trained monkey and taxi fuel doesn’t burn itself.
 
they use Z and Y to sequence departures off 30, all I see in this thread are people not listening and expectation bias

how is ramp different than a ground controller? they give you the freq, change to it, follow taxi instructions.

pwttogfk said:
If only there was a runway right by the GA side and a really big sky to launch into. But I’m just a minimally trained monkey and taxi fuel doesn’t burn itself.
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departure fix dependent, idk fly the other direction if you want a closer runway? you wanna go to 1R and have to wait for a 15 mile gap in 1L/C arrivals so you can make a departure turn to the west?
 
So in my world it’s 1.5 hour EDCT followed by “taxi to 15 via A.” Different worlds. And…IAD is the only “big kid” airport I’ve been to that doesn’t know how to have the GA side mix with everyone else airborne. Not sure I’ve ever landed or departed anything other than 17/35 in SLC, 19R/1L in ICT, 7R/25L at PHX, etc…but IAD gonna make you taxi for 1.5 and like it.
 
you get 1.5hr edcts leaving dulles to go where? there is no 15 in Dulles
all those places you mentioned have gobs of high/enroute airspace to fan out citations climbing at 200/.60
you have 3 class bs with probably 1500 departures between the three of them, underlying washington center with enroute traffic going up and down the coast. I’ve watched plenty of corporate jets land on 1R/19L, if youre not getting it you’re arriving during a bank and from a fix that wont get you to a proper sequence across ALL THE FINALS while you do 95kt inside the FAF
 
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