Stomp16
You mean Shennanigans?!?!
This seems stupid to me. Why not just make the limit .04 then, despite whether-or-not a person crashes?
Bad choice and not sure what to do
- Thread starter avi8tor1983
- Start date
This seems stupid to me. Why not just make the limit .04 then, despite whether-or-not a person crashes?
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
From the FAA's DUI FAQ's:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...ams/investigations/airmen_duidwi/airman_faqs/
Q: Do I have to report anything other than alcohol-related convictions?
A: Yes, under 14 CFR Part 61, you must report alcohol-related administrative actions, whether a conviction took place or not....
61.15 (c) says:
....a motor vehicle action means:
(1) A conviction after November 29, 1990, for the violation of any Federal or State statute relating to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug;
(2) The cancellation, suspension, or revocation of a license to operate a motor vehicle after November 29, 1990, for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug; or
(3) The denial after November 29, 1990, of an application for a license to operate a motor vehicle for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug.
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...ams/investigations/airmen_duidwi/airman_faqs/
Q: Do I have to report anything other than alcohol-related convictions?
A: Yes, under 14 CFR Part 61, you must report alcohol-related administrative actions, whether a conviction took place or not....
61.15 (c) says:
....a motor vehicle action means:
(1) A conviction after November 29, 1990, for the violation of any Federal or State statute relating to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug;
(2) The cancellation, suspension, or revocation of a license to operate a motor vehicle after November 29, 1990, for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug; or
(3) The denial after November 29, 1990, of an application for a license to operate a motor vehicle for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug.
NickH
Uber Driver
This seems stupid to me. Why not just make the limit .04 then, despite whether-or-not a person crashes?
Because justice is really about revenge.
If you fall asleep at the wheel and crash into a tree, the chances are you won't even get a ticket.
If a person were stood in front of the tree, you'll get prison time, despite the fact that your actions were identical, and it was just coincidence that the results were very different.
There was an accident in England some years ago, that illustrates this issue perfectly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Heck_rail_crash
A whole series of coincidences that turned a minor into one of the worst accidents this century.
SeanD
Well-Known Member
There was a chick back in 1999 here in Vegas who fell asleep on the 15 and steam rolled a bunch of teens doing community service in the midian. Four of them were killed. She had drugs in her system but was not intoxicated at the time of the crash. The girl was irresponsible and fell asleep but guess what? She was convicted and sent to prison for 25 years. However, the numbnuts (State of Nevada) who had these kids picking up litter in the median of a major freeway took no accountability even though the parents of the victims wanted their heads more than the girl who was driving.
Rotor2Wing
Unapologetically American
This seems stupid to me. Why not just make the limit .04 then, despite whether-or-not a person crashes?
Oh I agree 100%! It should be a set limit no matter what. I can't remember it exactly but here in Ga. the law also states that if you are under 21 the DUI limit is also .04. I remember when I was in the academy how dumb I thought that was. Basically if your are a teen its ok to have a few drinks as long as you pace yourself so your BAC stays below .04 you can't be charged with DUI while 16 years old!
You have got to check yes on these boxes on your next medical application because the FAA will crack down on pilots who either lie or attempt to hide this type of information. The FAA started cracking down on the medical application information about 20 years ago because of pilots having accidents or incidents with motor vehicles involving alcohol or drugs. If you spit on the sidewalk and are arrested, report it because this wide net is looking for arrests as well. This includes misdemeanors and felonies also. No penalty for not being sure and reporting something whereas the FAA will roast you for not reporting something because you forgot or didn't think it was reportable! good luck, I think you will be fine if you handle the situation correctly.
ScorpionStinger
Well-Known Member
To OP: It's great to get advice on certain things from a forum, but in this case I hope you sought AOPA Legal Advise before getting in contact with FAA or your AME (IF your pilot license & medical certificates are very important to you, then it's worth fighting for and doing things the right way.) Thee FAA is not going to feel sorry for you because you came clean. They're job is to hammer the law when it's broken. Again I recommend AOPA Legal services, they'll get you in contact with an Aviation lawyer. OP your alive, and no one was hurt! Give thanks! What's done is done. We all make mistakes. You seem to be learning from yours which is great. Do your best to save your future. I wish you the best.
My Fellow JC'er: This is great learning experience for all of us that driving, flying, or being on duty with alcohol in our system can lead to not only putting your life and the safety of others in danger, but also EXPENSIVE A$$ LEGAL FEES, POSSIBLE JOB LOSS, LOW QOL, as well as PEACE OF MIND.
Ask yourself, is it worth it before cutting it close. All your hard work and sacrifice over the years, is it worth the risk? Don't risk it all over a beverage (beer,whisky, vodka, tequila, rum).
Be safe out there folks.
PositionAndHold
Well-Known Member
To add to the above. We've all been young and dumb. I've done my fare share of dumb stuff. One day I looked at DUI like this; if I was sitting in a a jail cell after being arrested for DUI, would I trade my freedom for an overdrawn bank account to pay for a cab home? (For me a cab ride home runs about $60) I sure would. After that, driving impaired never even entered my mind. If I went out to drink I new I had enough for a cab or a place to stay BEFORE I started drinking.
block30
Well-Known Member
Thank you for sharing. I didn't know that! Seems kinda crappy that the law is written that way in my opinion. Good luck Aviator1983. Get legal counsel.
He'll be fine with legal counsel.
In this business, it's not the crime, it's the attempted cover-up. The Feds strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger when you don't disclose things on 8710's and medical applications.
You can work your way through it fairly successfully in an airline interview if there is sufficient time in between your ONE incident and your application process and you own up to it no matter if you were technically screwed or not.
"I learned a lot and moved forward in a positive direction after that lesson" -- GOOD!
"The po-po screwed me" -- RED FLAG
In this business, it's not the crime, it's the attempted cover-up. The Feds strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger when you don't disclose things on 8710's and medical applications.
You can work your way through it fairly successfully in an airline interview if there is sufficient time in between your ONE incident and your application process and you own up to it no matter if you were technically screwed or not.
"I learned a lot and moved forward in a positive direction after that lesson" -- GOOD!
"The po-po screwed me" -- RED FLAG
cezzna
Well-Known Member
This is it exactly. Get counsel but this is how it will go:
- report it, never try to deny it happened.
- it will get reduced to either reckless op, or public intox.
- it really is about the cover-up, not the crime.
- everyone is ashamed of some mistake.
- anyone who isn't, is a sanctimonious shill- don't believe them.
Yes, had to haul him to his room and put him to bed. Like in college. But, that was just me returning the favor: for Doug kept me from freezing in the snow in our apartment complex. Even after I almost killed him and Mike Lewis on a snowy mountain road on the back side of Thumb Butte in the middle of nowhere, 24 years ago.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I see several people recommending AOPA's legal plan, but honestly, this is your career we're talking about. AOPA's bargain basement legal plan is not what you need. You need top notch legal support. Call an attorney who specializes in aviation law and has his own practice.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
AOPA's plan only provides 3 hours of legal services at the basic level, and 6 hours at the top level when it comes to drug and alcohol issues. Sorry, but AOPA's plans are a waste (and so is AOPA).
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
cezzna
Well-Known Member
You really don't need a lawyer other than a DWI lawyer. The evidence that something happened can never be buried, expunged, or the like. Since you were under the limit, it will be reduced.
No "high powered aviation attorney" can make the evidence or the data in the system disappear. Even if you get it expunged, the data is still in the system and you can't ever answer "no" to questions on employment applications.
No "high powered aviation attorney" can make the evidence or the data in the system disappear. Even if you get it expunged, the data is still in the system and you can't ever answer "no" to questions on employment applications.