B44/re-dispatch question

[GroundPilot]

Not sure which carriers use this but wanted to ask a question regarding alternate use and any regulations in writing on this.

Do you need an alternate in this situation.

Example;
LHR-JFK
LHR-CYQX initial destination under 5:55
CYQX-JFK re-dispatch 2:00

Is an alternate required. No because each flight segment is under 6 hours or yes because the entire flight is over 6 hours.

Thanks.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

I’m not a dispatcher nor did I stay at a holiday inn express last night, but no alternate is required.

That said, as a pilot I’ve had this bite me a couple times. The most recent was departing Asia for ANC. Overburned a bit trying to go around weather over China, plus ATC kept us low. Just BARELY made our redispatch (200kg if I remember correctly). Long story short, on arrival into ANC we find out that an AA 777 diverted to ANC and they closed all three runways until crash fire rescue could check them out. They got it open pretty quick but we were about 5 min from having to declare min fuel. Landed with basically a go around +20 min of fuel which definitely made me uncomfortable.

 

[gopherdx]

Assuming WX at your initial and intended is above C055, then no because each segment is treated as a separate leg as is the whole purpose of B044.

 

[Mainline_or_bust]

Assuming WX at your initial and intended is above C055, then no because each segment is treated as a separate leg as is the whole purpose of B044.

This is the way.

 

[manniax]

This is the way.

 

[Burrito]

I feel like this discussion is happening more and more when I chat up shops whose members use B44.

 

[F9DXER]

One thing to remember, some countries require an alternate regardless of whether you are arriving or departing said county.
So even on a redispatch flight plan, you would have to list an alternate on the redispatch leg (or at least put one in the atc filing)

 

[fuelfool]

Now imagine doing this at a 121 Supplemental in an old beat up freighter with no phone or acars. You end up with two destinations, two dest alternates, whatever you have for etops alts and you're trying to everything over a crappy hf phone patch. Good times.

 

[GroundPilot]

Know someone who got the invite. Best of luck!

 

[gopherdx]

Know someone who got the invite. Best of luck!

Huh?

 

[BobaGotBack]

Now imagine doing this at a 121 Supplemental in an old beat up freighter with no phone or acars. You end up with two destinations, two dest alternates, whatever you have for etops alts and you're trying to everything over a crappy hf phone patch. Good times.

767-200?

 

[McCrosky]

Now imagine doing this at a 121 Supplemental in an old beat up freighter with no phone or acars. You end up with two destinations, two dest alternates, whatever you have for etops alts and you're trying to everything over a crappy hf phone patch. Good times.

Been there, done that (almost… ETP airports.).

Now imagined doing the double redispatch… nothing in B044 says you only can plan one redispatch per flight. Some old salty dispatchers back in the 707/747-100 days know

 

[GroundPilot]

Huh?

wrong thread

 

[Mainline_or_bust]

One thing to remember, some countries require an alternate regardless of whether you are arriving or departing said county.
So even on a redispatch flight plan, you would have to list an alternate on the redispatch leg (or at least put one in the atc filing)

I don’t think there would be a requirement even then. I bet those countries have that in their AIPs and regulations wording that applies to flights originating or destined to their country. I know I’ve never read a reference to flights overflying must have an alternate.

At least part of the time it isn’t about a safe minimum fuel, it’s about selling more fuel to support economically. Overflying isn’t part of it for those situations.

 

[FlyingSioux1]

I say treat it like deriving mins when you have to go to the 2 navaid, it's too much work. Just toss the re-dispatch alt on and call it a day. Not like alternate fuel is a big deal in the planning phase on the first segment.

 

[CrashesDrones]

I say treat it like deriving mins when you have to go to the 2 navaid, it's too much work.

....

I guess AI will be replacing us sooner than I thought.

 

[Papa Sierra 5]

I say treat it like deriving mins when you have to go to the 2 navaid, it's too much work. Just toss the re-dispatch alt on and call it a day. Not like alternate fuel is a big deal in the planning phase on the first segment.

Why just on first segment of trip?

 

[Mach82]

Why just on first segment of trip?

On most long haul redispatch flights, the first segment is over 6hrs and it is required anyway. VHHH-KMEM was 90% of the time KDEN/KCOS with the redispatch point somewhere between GEG and CYS. I’ve done HNL-MEM redispatch with no alternates before. I think PHX area was the cutoff point for under 6hrs on the first half if memory serves me correctly.

 

[Papa Sierra 5]

On most long haul redispatch flights, the first segment is over 6hrs and it is required anyway. VHHH-KMEM was 90% of the time KDEN/KCOS with the redispatch point somewhere between GEG and CYS. I’ve done HNL-MEM redispatch with no alternates before. I think PHX area was the cutoff point for under 6hrs on the first half if memory serves me correctly.

Thank you Mach82!