Avantair

skydisaster said:
I am sure some one has better information than I do, but a search of the FAA registry indicates that many owners do own shares in the airplanes.

IF Avantair does not make it, the way the aircraft owners are handled will have a significant impact on all future fractional transactions. A fractional owner owns an asset with multiple other people/ corporate entities that you have never met nor had any direct business dealings. If the management company ceases to exist, the ownership of that asset does not change. This creates a real issue if you are trying to liquidate your share in that asset.
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Our aircraft are all 1/16th share owned by our clients. We do (did) also have jet card programs under 135 as well...

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skydisaster said:
I am sure some one has better information than I do, but a search of the FAA registry indicates that many owners do own shares in the airplanes.

IF Avantair does not make it, the way the aircraft owners are handled will have a significant impact on all future fractional transactions. A fractional owner owns an asset with multiple other people/ corporate entities that you have never met nor had any direct business dealings. If the management company ceases to exist, the ownership of that asset does not change. This creates a real issue if you are trying to liquidate your share in that asset.
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I've always understood that they were just like any other fractional, where the owners do own actual shares in the aircraft. That said, as it has been pointed out above, the management company also typically owns a few airframes themselves to cover gaps in aircraft utilization.

If the management company ceases to exist, you have some aircraft that were wholly owned by the company, and are thus an asset of the company. You also have aircraft that are fractionally owned by a group of owners, which are not assets of the company.

This wil be interesting to see how it works out, but hopefully it isn't a total disaster.
 
Patrick said:
I've always understood that they were just like any other fractional, where the owners do own actual shares in the aircraft. That said, as it has been pointed out above, the management company also typically owns a few airframes themselves to cover gaps in aircraft utilization.

If the management company ceases to exist, you have some aircraft that were wholly owned by the company, and are thus an asset of the company. You also have aircraft that are fractionally owned by a group of owners, which are not assets of the company.

This wil be interesting to see how it works out, but hopefully it isn't a total disaster.
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Indeed...i already see today that one of our company owned birds for the purpose you mentioned was listed for sale in controller online this morning....

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Ziggyfuzz said:
Indeed...i already see today that one of our company owned birds for the purpose you mentioned was listed for sale in controller online this morning....

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No bueno :(

Best of luck to all those affected.
 
Best of luck guys... I remember waiting on a students check ride at BWG and Avanti came in. If I would have had the time then, I would've applied..
 
I asked this question, while I worked in the office. All the contracts, have a liquidation clause. So, they, the owners are secured creditors with an asset being the plane. They accept a liquidated settlement, so all the planes are sold and they get a % of ownership as a % of total recovered. This could take years. The jet card people are unsecured creditors, but their money, was usually in escrow until it was used. But that was just our policy. As for avant air, if you voluntarily shut down, you were about 1 inch away from a federal shut down. I spent 2 years in a large fractional safety department, and not even in the worest issues we had, not that we had anything, major, but relative to all the safety issues, were anything worth the feds time. This is not good. The last thing the POI or MOI want to do is have an operation on their watch have issues.
 
Over on the APC forum, there is a former employee describing some very detailed and well documented MX issues during his/ her time at AvantAir.

Good luck to everyone.
 
Exactly. There are many people out there with personal agendas and others trying to kick someone while they are down. Take it with a grain of salt, the truth lies in the middle most of the time...
 
mshunter said:
Don't believe everything you hear on the internets.
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I have a close friend who was involved with developing Avantair, and his only gripe about the company then, or now, was how horrible the mx department is. It doest not surprise me one bit to here that.
 
Inverted said:
I have a close friend who was involved with developing Avantair, and his only gripe about the company then, or now, was how horrible the mx department is. It doest not surprise me one bit to here that.
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Wonder if it was the personnel or the aircraft that made it so horrible.
 
Murdoughnut said:
Wonder if it was the personnel or the aircraft that made it so horrible.
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I would say both.

Piaggio didn't make this aircraft to fly the amount of hours that's being put on it at Avantair. That being said.... The maintenance program for it should be as thorough as possible because of it.

1)Beef up the airplane to take some abuse

And

2)Make sure the MX program/personnel is qualified and on top of its game

Easier said than done. For the sake of the employees I hope they come back
 
Roger Roger said:
Easier said than done... You wouldn't believe how difficult the FAA makes it to do even some basic beef up mods to older aircraft with simple structure, much less something like a pressurized turbine twin.
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Depends what they're changing. Mod line updates for srevice reliability happen all the time...
 
Intoolerpol said:
I would say both.

Piaggio didn't make this aircraft to fly the amount of hours that's being put on it at Avantair. That being said.... The maintenance program for it should be as thorough as possible because of it.

1)Beef up the airplane to take some abuse

And

2)Make sure the MX program/personnel is qualified and on top of its game

Easier said than done. For the sake of the employees I hope they come back
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"If you don't like it, why you buy so many!" said in a heavy Italian accent.
 
Any new updates on the situation over there? Good luck to all of you guys. More importantly if you are on the forum, let us know how we can help.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
"If you don't like it, why you buy so many!" said in a heavy Italian accent.
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Hindsight is always 20/20, right? I'm sure they had other plans when they started this venture. It's not like they went into this with the intentions of one day grounding the whole fleet. It's business, and they've made some costly mistakes along the way. Again, for the sake of the employees I hope they can make it back.
 
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