Attention CFI's and CFI Students

bob loblaw said:
Got fi . . .

Do you want me to finish what you wanted to bait me with. I am proud of the fact that I stood up for myself. I am proud of the fact that I got fired for having a backbone. I am proud of the fact that I did not lie to my students thus keeping my credibility intact. I am thankful for a turn coordinator that was broken in a ATP plane which proved my point to the students regarding spins and spins hurting the gyros. Yeah, I got fired.

It takes a real man to admit on a public aviation messege board that he was fired from his position as a ATP flight instructor. But you know what, I can live with it.
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Not that I choosing side (love ya llyod yo you ma brah) cause I'm not.
But you brag about your integrity and your commitment to your students and honesty and respect and bob loblaw (read it fast).

But fact remains that you got fired from three count em three job. But for the sake of arguement we will say two and that you voluntarily left one.
Your even proud of the fact that you have recently turned down two CFI jobs.

As is so often said on this website aviation is all about networking. What kinda of image are you portraying of yourself. Both with your previous iterations and even now.
Sorry to say say but if I was an employer I wouldn't employ you. I'm not sure what your future goals and asperation are in aviation but I think that your limiting yourself and your future. You seem to be your own worst enemy.
Not trying to flame you or start a fight with you just voicing my opinion.
Besides...you couldn't hang with me...lol!

-Matthew
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Not that I choosing side (love ya llyod yo you ma brah) cause I'm not.
But you brag about your integrity and your commitment to your students and honesty and respect and bob loblaw (read it fast).

But fact remains that you got fired from three count em three job. But for the sake of arguement we will say two and that you voluntarily left one.
Your even proud of the fact that you have recently turned down two CFI jobs.

As is so often said on this website aviation is all about networking. What kinda of image are you portraying of yourself. Both with your previous iterations and even now.
Sorry to say say but if I was an employer I wouldn't employ you. I'm not sure what your future goals and asperation are in aviation but I think that your limiting yourself and your future. You seem to be your own worst enemy.
Not trying to flame you or start a fight with you just voicing my opinion.
Besides...you couldn't hang with me...lol!

-Matthew
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Since you are not chosing sides :sarcasm: I will cut you some slack in my response to you. But I would like for you to read it carefully so you can avoid any future mistakes.

I wrote in my response to Llyod that I had two aviation jobs, one which I worked for 1 1/2 years and left to go to work for ATP. I was fired by ATP for the reasons listed above. You write back after obviously not reading the post and respond to me with your opinion. This is where you learn a lesson that will suit you well in your future so read carefully.

Your opinion holds value only if it contains facts. Having and voicing an opinion that clearly shows you don't know the facts could make you look ignorant and uneducated. You said I was fired from three jobs and then you say for the sake of argument two jobs, one which I left voluntarily. This is not at all true, or what I wrote in my reply to Llyod. You also say that if you were an employer, you would not hire me. You must not be interested in hiring someone who has integrity, and is completely honest. As for turning down two CFI job offers, I am not the first person who upon learning all aspects of a job, decided the job wasn't for me. Learning this before you begin employment is important. Turning the job down keeps you from having to add one more employer to your job history. A unstable work history does not look good and is counter productive.
 
dude ive turned down two job offers before wait make that three. but only because i had a better offer or job already. i could really care less about your career choices as it has no effect on me. just a question i started pondering though. would an unstable job history hurt more or less than a lack of job history. just the ponderings of my mind.
 
hattrick said:
dude ive turned down two job offers before wait make that three. but only because i had a better offer or job already. i could really care less about your career choices as it has no effect on me. just a question i started pondering though. would an unstable job history hurt more or less than a lack of job history. just the ponderings of my mind.
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Well that is why I said what I said to "blah blah"? With everything that has been said on this site about networking and the aviation community at large being small and tight knit.
It is easy to make a bad impression on peoples minds like getting fired from two jobs then maybe boasting about it later on an aviation website.
People are going to start assuming things about you. That may or may not be right. But remember always that "perception is reality."
More especially if you have a history of being rather inflamtory and hot headed.

Everyone has a story but if I as an employer were to see that someone had a history of "job hopping" and or getting fired from multiple jobs they wouldn't favor too well in my book.
There is nothing wrong with turning down a job. But everytime he mentions it he comes off as sounding rather pious.
Coupled with the fact that my momma always taught me when your unemployed you take the first job that comes along till your back on your feet and can then choose to be picky. But I don't know the mans financial situation.

-Matthew
 
hattrick said:
dude ive turned down two job offers before wait make that three. but only because i had a better offer or job already. i could really care less about your career choices as it has no effect on me. just a question i started pondering though. would an unstable job history hurt more or less than a lack of job history. just the ponderings of my mind.
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Being unemployed is better than job hopping. The main question employers want to know when you are unemployed is why, and how long. I got fired from ATP in July this year, from then til present time I have been voluntering with the CAP. This keeps me flying and shows my time went to good use.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Well that is why I said what I said to "blah blah"? With everything that has been said on this site about networking and the aviation community at large being small and tight knit.
It is easy to make a bad impression on peoples minds like getting fired from two jobs then maybe boasting about it later on an aviation website.
People are going to start assuming things about you. That may or may not be right. But remember always that "perception is reality."
More especially if you have a history of being rather inflamtory and hot headed.

Everyone has a story but if I as an employer were to see that someone had a history of "job hopping" and or getting fired from multiple jobs they wouldn't favor too well in my book.
There is nothing wrong with turning down a job. But everytime he mentions it he comes off as sounding rather pious.
Coupled with the fact that my momma always taught me when your unemployed you take the first job that comes along till your back on your feet and can then choose to be picky. But I don't know the mans financial situation.

-Matthew
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Dude, your reading skills are seriously lacking. Look at the bold text and read it slowly and carefully. This is the second time you have said that I was fired from two jobs. I was fired from only one job and that was ATP. I left my first aviation job after 1 1/2 years voluntarily to go to ATP. I have had only 2 aviation jobs. Like I said before torchy, your opinions which lack facts show that you are ignorant of the facts which have been clearly communicated, yet you cannot comprehend this. Why?
 
bob loblaw said:
Dude, your reading skills are seriously lacking. Look at the bold text and read it slowly and carefully. This is the second time you have said that I was fired from two jobs. I was fired from only one job and that was ATP. I left my first aviation job after 1 1/2 years voluntarily to go to ATP. I have had only 2 aviation jobs. Like I said before torchy, your opinions which lack facts show that you are ignorant of the facts which have been clearly communicated, yet you cannot comprehend this. Why?
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I can read and have excellent comprehension skills. I just enjoy watching you explain yourself to me time and time again.

:whatever:

-Matthew
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
I can read and have excellent comprehension skills. I just enjoy watching you explain yourself to me time and time again.

:whatever:

-Matthew
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Generally speaking, when the reader gets lost it's not the reader's fault but the author's.
 
Philip said:
Generally speaking, when the reader gets lost it's not the reader's fault but the author's.
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So I guess my post about having two aviation jobs could easily lead someone to believe I had three. Yep, my fault! I will do my best to communicate better.
 
Here's what I got out of my CFI training: sure, I could buy a set of lesson plans, but how would that be any different than reading the FAA books? I think I learned more by researching and writing my own lesson plans than I would if I had just bought a book to get me through the initial checkride. I rarely use them, but I learned a LOT in the process of writing them. IMO, a set of lesson plans would be better used AFTER you received your CFI certs. If you buy a set of plans just to pass your checkride, I think you're cheating yourself.
 
kellwolf said:
Here's what I got out of my CFI training: sure, I could buy a set of lesson plans, but how would that be any different than reading the FAA books? I think I learned more by researching and writing my own lesson plans than I would if I had just bought a book to get me through the initial checkride. I rarely use them, but I learned a LOT in the process of writing them. IMO, a set of lesson plans would be better used AFTER you received your CFI certs. If you buy a set of plans just to pass your checkride, I think you're cheating yourself.
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Normally I would agree with you but all I can say is that you have some nerve making a on-topic post! ;)
 
kellwolf said:
Here's what I got out of my CFI training: sure, I could buy a set of lesson plans, but how would that be any different than reading the FAA books? I think I learned more by researching and writing my own lesson plans than I would if I had just bought a book to get me through the initial checkride. I rarely use them, but I learned a LOT in the process of writing them. IMO, a set of lesson plans would be better used AFTER you received your CFI certs. If you buy a set of plans just to pass your checkride, I think you're cheating yourself.
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This is certainly true. I did my initial CFI training at a school that encourages you to make lesson plans on the boards and teach a lesson on whatever subject your instructor tells you to teach. Since I proved to my instructor that I can write a lesson plan for any task, I got the go-ahead to buy the already made plans. Made my life easier without cheating myself since I already proved my ability to write up a lesson plan.
 
bob loblaw said:
The main question employers want to know when you are unemployed is why, and how long.
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When you fill out an airline or governemnt application you must provide your history back 10 years. If you have any big gaps (i.e. 30-60 days) in employment / work history (not including college or high school, or even junior high which mine included) you have to prove where you were.

I think on some applications they want letters from clergy or other upstanding citizens. If you've been at CAP since then, and have someone who can attest to that you'll probably be ok, but this is just an FYI...

Don't assume being out of work is ok - but I agree that job hopping isn't the best way to go either. However, if you can show how each one improved yoru situation, I think pilots, as a whole, are expected to job hop more than the average folk.

~wheelsup
 
wheelsup said:
When you fill out an airline or governemnt application you must provide your history back 10 years. If you have any big gaps (i.e. 30-60 days) in employment / work history (not including college or high school, or even junior high which mine included) you have to prove where you were.

I think on some applications they want letters from clergy or other upstanding citizens. If you've been at CAP since then, and have someone who can attest to that you'll probably be ok, but this is just an FYI...

Don't assume being out of work is ok - but I agree that job hopping isn't the best way to go either. However, if you can show how each one improved yoru situation, I think pilots, as a whole, are expected to job hop more than the average folk.

~wheelsup
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Before becoming a pilot I was a tractor trailer driver. The driving industry has more job hoppers than the aviation industry, although each job in aviation should be a step up. I have been pretty lucky so far in that I have had only two aviation jobs and a solid ten year history in trucking. We truck drivers also have to do a ten year history.
 
bob loblaw said:
This is certainly true. I did my initial CFI training at a school that encourages you to make lesson plans on the boards and teach a lesson on whatever subject your instructor tells you to teach. Since I proved to my instructor that I can write a lesson plan for any task, I got the go-ahead to buy the already made plans. Made my life easier without cheating myself since I already proved my ability to write up a lesson plan.
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To me the point of the exercise is more than just "can you write a lesson plan," but it also involves helping you learn the material in that lesson plan by researching the subject and writing it out in your own words. It's one thing to read how wing planforms affect drag and lift, it's another to be able to understand and explain it instead of just regurgitating a canned lesson plan.
 
kellwolf said:
To me the point of the exercise is more than just "can you write a lesson plan," but it also involves helping you learn the material in that lesson plan by researching the subject and writing it out in your own words. It's one thing to read how wing planforms affect drag and lift, it's another to be able to understand and explain it instead of just regurgitating a canned lesson plan.
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I could not agree more. Developing your own lesson plans is a big part of a teachers learning process. The time it takes to develop your own lesson plans equals time spent really learning what you are teaching and being able to do the best possible job transferring that information. This is especially true for the average new CFI who barely understands what they are teaching when the ink is still new on the certificate. Just buying a book of lesson plans and calling it done is doing yourself and your future students a disservice. I am not saying that you cant use such a book to help you develop your own material, but at least take the time to transfer it into your own words and really think about each topic.
I am of the opinion that if a CFI is not willing attempt to become a good teacher they should find another way to build time.
 
I don't know how the discussion turned to if you go buy a book you obviously don't know how to teach or are too lazy to learn. I am letting people know that there is a book of lesson plans on the market that are professional written and organized. Buying this book will not make you smarter or get you more chicks. Buying the book will provide you with professionaly written lesson plans. Get off of your soapbox and take the post the way it is meant.

My god people, this isn't rocket science and sitting down at a table a writting lesson plans doesn't make you smarter. A lesson plan is not meant to explain how lift works, it is not meant to explain theorys, it is meant to give a student an outline of what to expect from the lesson, what you will cover, and any materials to go along with your planned lesson. Now you should be able to give the student the lesson plan and be able to teach each and every area your lesson plan covers.
 
[FONT=&quot]Great attitude. If you don’t like countering opinions don’t bother posting on a forum.

Teaching well is much more than reading from a canned lesson plan. There is quite a bit a prep involved in good instruction and developing your own lesson plans is part if it. Again the task is not proving you know the lesson plan format. The task is researching and refining your knowledge of the topic you are planning to teach. Lesson plans are a tool and they are particularly useful for new teachers and many CFI’s fit into that category.
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Acadia said:
[FONT=&quot]Great attitude. If you don’t like countering opinions don’t bother posting on a forum.

Teaching well is much more than reading from a canned lesson plan. There is quite a bit a prep involved in good instruction and developing your own lesson plans is part if it. Again the task is not proving you know the lesson plan format. The task is researching and refining your knowledge of the topic you are planning to teach. Lesson plans are a tool and they are particularly useful for new teachers and many CFI’s fit into that category.
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I don't mind a difference of opinion unless of course someone is trying to make you look foolish. You don't need a written lesson plan to know your material that you are going to teach. A written lesson plan is nice to give to a student so he or she can see exactly what you are going to cover, the approx time it will take, the materials needed, and completion standards. I am recalling this stuff off of the top of my head. Now again, it is the CFI's responsibility to be prepared to teach what the lesson plan called for. If the CFI is rusty, he should prepare himself before hand.
 
The only person who can make you look foolish is you. If you think you look foolish that is your affair.

Obviously you didn’t realize it, but you started a topic that some feel strongly about and you got responses. I gave you an opinion (and yes I have a teaching background and a degree in education). If you don’t like it fine, but don’t turn it into a pissing match. Use your lesson plan book and good luck to you and your students.

End of topic.
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