Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
It would have been somewhat interesting to have someone with a stopwatch back there timing how long it took us to detect the failure without feathering and run the memory item.
ATR down in Taipei
- Thread starter alaskadrifter
- Start date
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
That would be a number I would like to see.
MaRiO FDZ
JJ Abrams you Insensitive Bastard.
Uhnoh. According to several reports, the pilots shut down THE WRONG engine
http://www.asc.gov.tw/main_en/docDetail.aspx?uid=318&pid=318&docid=669
Man, this sucks
http://www.asc.gov.tw/main_en/docDetail.aspx?uid=318&pid=318&docid=669
Man, this sucks
Last edited:
Soul Brotha'
Off to go do Black guy stuff
From AvHerald
A Transasia Avions de Transport Regional ATR-72-212A, registration B-22816 performing flight GE-235 from Taipei Songshan to Kinmen (Taiwan) with 53 passengers and 5 crew, departed Songshan's runway 10. Shortly after takeoff at 10:52L (02:52Z) the aircraft began to roll left, the crew radioed "Mayday! Mayday! Engine Flame Out!" at 10:53L with no further transmission, the aircraft reached a maximum height of about 1500 feet (corrected for QNH), lost height, struck a taxi, hit a Huangdong Boulevard Viaduct with its left wing at nearly 90 degrees of bank angle at about 10:54L (02:54Z) and impacted the water of the Keelung River near the Nankang Software Park coming to rest inverted, about 2.9nm from the end of runway 10. 15 people were rescued alive, 35 occupants were killed, 8 people are missing and feared trapped inside the remaining wreckage submerged in the river. 2 occupants of the taxi were taken to a hospital with minor injuries.
The airline reported at 23:00L that 26 occupants have been killed, 14 occupants are being treated in various hospitals, one survivor has already been released from hospital care. The accident ATR-72-600 has been in service for less than a year and underwent last regular maintenance on Jan 26th 2015. The airline conducts an immediate inspection of all engines on their fleet following a directive by Taiwan's Civil Aviation Authority.
On Feb 5th 2015 the airline reported that the two pilots at the controls had 4,914 hours and 6,922 hours total flying experience, an instructor with 16,121 hours total occupied the observer's seat. The crew had signed the flight papers, that showed no unusual circumstances. 31 occupants are confirmed dead, 15 occupants were taken to hospitals, 14 remain in hospital care, one was discharged already, 12 occupants are missing, 2 injured on the ground are still in hospital treatment, too. The examination of the entire ATR fleet under surveillance by Taiwan's Civil Aviation Authority has been completed.
On Feb 6th 2015 the airline reported that so far 35 bodies have been recovered, 30 of which have been identified. In response to media misreporting the airline re-stated, that the pilot in the left hand seat had 4,914 hours of total experience, in the right hand seat 6,922 hours total experience and the instructor on the observer's seat 16,121 hours total experience.
Taiwan's ASC have dispatched investigators on site and opened an investigation. The French BEA representing the state of manufacture dispatched two investigators to Taiwan, the Canadian TSB representing the state of engine manufacture (PW127) dispatched an accredited representative to Taiwan.
On Feb 5th 2015 Taiwan's ASC reported that the black boxes have been received in the evening of Feb 4th, the CVR contains 4 tracks of high quality recordings for 150 minutes, the flight data recorder recording 750 parameters has also been downloaded, analysis of the data has already begun currently synchronising the recordings. Various investigation groups started their tasks to collect evidence on site, e.g. in cooperation with criminal police to establish the first point of impact, establish instrument panel readings, collecting witness statements, obtain maintenance documents, collect ATC recordings and statements, collect weather information. Investigators by BEA and ATR have already arrived, investigators from the Canadian TSB are expected to arrive during Feb 5th.
On Feb 6th 2015 Taiwan's ASC reported that the investigation so far determined from flight data and cockpit voice recorders: the aircraft received takeoff clearance at 10:51L, in the initial climb the aircraft was handed off to departure at 10:52:33L. At 10:52:38L at about 1200 feet MSL, 37 seconds after becoming airborne, a master warning activated related to the failure of the right hand engine, at 10:52:43L the left hand engine was throttled back and at 10:53:00L the crew began to discuss engine #1 had stalled. At 10:53:06L the right hand engine (engine #2) auto-feathered. At 10:53:12L a first stall warning occured and ceased at 10:53:18L. At 10:53:19L the crew discussed that engine #1 had already feathered, the fuel supply had already been cut to the engine and decided to attempt a restart of engine #1. Two seconds later another stall warning activated. At 10:53:34L the crew radioed "Mayday! Mayday! Engine flame out!", multiple attempts to restart the engines followed to no avail. At 10:54:34L a second master warning activated, 0.4 seconds later both recorders stopped recording.
Later the day Feb 6th 2015 the ASC also released an English version of the initial release detailing further that when the first master warning activated associated with the right hand engine the crew "called it out", then the left hand engine thrust lever was progressively retarded to flight idle. At 10:53:24L the condition lever was set to fuel shut off position resulting in the shut down of the left hand engine. Following several call outs to restart the left hand engine the parameters suggest the left hand engine was restarted at 10:54:20L, however, at 10:54:34L another master warning sounded, the CVR recorded unidentified sounds and both recorders stopped.
A Transasia Avions de Transport Regional ATR-72-212A, registration B-22816 performing flight GE-235 from Taipei Songshan to Kinmen (Taiwan) with 53 passengers and 5 crew, departed Songshan's runway 10. Shortly after takeoff at 10:52L (02:52Z) the aircraft began to roll left, the crew radioed "Mayday! Mayday! Engine Flame Out!" at 10:53L with no further transmission, the aircraft reached a maximum height of about 1500 feet (corrected for QNH), lost height, struck a taxi, hit a Huangdong Boulevard Viaduct with its left wing at nearly 90 degrees of bank angle at about 10:54L (02:54Z) and impacted the water of the Keelung River near the Nankang Software Park coming to rest inverted, about 2.9nm from the end of runway 10. 15 people were rescued alive, 35 occupants were killed, 8 people are missing and feared trapped inside the remaining wreckage submerged in the river. 2 occupants of the taxi were taken to a hospital with minor injuries.
The airline reported at 23:00L that 26 occupants have been killed, 14 occupants are being treated in various hospitals, one survivor has already been released from hospital care. The accident ATR-72-600 has been in service for less than a year and underwent last regular maintenance on Jan 26th 2015. The airline conducts an immediate inspection of all engines on their fleet following a directive by Taiwan's Civil Aviation Authority.
On Feb 5th 2015 the airline reported that the two pilots at the controls had 4,914 hours and 6,922 hours total flying experience, an instructor with 16,121 hours total occupied the observer's seat. The crew had signed the flight papers, that showed no unusual circumstances. 31 occupants are confirmed dead, 15 occupants were taken to hospitals, 14 remain in hospital care, one was discharged already, 12 occupants are missing, 2 injured on the ground are still in hospital treatment, too. The examination of the entire ATR fleet under surveillance by Taiwan's Civil Aviation Authority has been completed.
On Feb 6th 2015 the airline reported that so far 35 bodies have been recovered, 30 of which have been identified. In response to media misreporting the airline re-stated, that the pilot in the left hand seat had 4,914 hours of total experience, in the right hand seat 6,922 hours total experience and the instructor on the observer's seat 16,121 hours total experience.
Taiwan's ASC have dispatched investigators on site and opened an investigation. The French BEA representing the state of manufacture dispatched two investigators to Taiwan, the Canadian TSB representing the state of engine manufacture (PW127) dispatched an accredited representative to Taiwan.
On Feb 5th 2015 Taiwan's ASC reported that the black boxes have been received in the evening of Feb 4th, the CVR contains 4 tracks of high quality recordings for 150 minutes, the flight data recorder recording 750 parameters has also been downloaded, analysis of the data has already begun currently synchronising the recordings. Various investigation groups started their tasks to collect evidence on site, e.g. in cooperation with criminal police to establish the first point of impact, establish instrument panel readings, collecting witness statements, obtain maintenance documents, collect ATC recordings and statements, collect weather information. Investigators by BEA and ATR have already arrived, investigators from the Canadian TSB are expected to arrive during Feb 5th.
On Feb 6th 2015 Taiwan's ASC reported that the investigation so far determined from flight data and cockpit voice recorders: the aircraft received takeoff clearance at 10:51L, in the initial climb the aircraft was handed off to departure at 10:52:33L. At 10:52:38L at about 1200 feet MSL, 37 seconds after becoming airborne, a master warning activated related to the failure of the right hand engine, at 10:52:43L the left hand engine was throttled back and at 10:53:00L the crew began to discuss engine #1 had stalled. At 10:53:06L the right hand engine (engine #2) auto-feathered. At 10:53:12L a first stall warning occured and ceased at 10:53:18L. At 10:53:19L the crew discussed that engine #1 had already feathered, the fuel supply had already been cut to the engine and decided to attempt a restart of engine #1. Two seconds later another stall warning activated. At 10:53:34L the crew radioed "Mayday! Mayday! Engine flame out!", multiple attempts to restart the engines followed to no avail. At 10:54:34L a second master warning activated, 0.4 seconds later both recorders stopped recording.
Later the day Feb 6th 2015 the ASC also released an English version of the initial release detailing further that when the first master warning activated associated with the right hand engine the crew "called it out", then the left hand engine thrust lever was progressively retarded to flight idle. At 10:53:24L the condition lever was set to fuel shut off position resulting in the shut down of the left hand engine. Following several call outs to restart the left hand engine the parameters suggest the left hand engine was restarted at 10:54:20L, however, at 10:54:34L another master warning sounded, the CVR recorded unidentified sounds and both recorders stopped.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Yeah, they caged the wrong one. It's worth mentioning unconfirmed reports that the C/A had complained about the #1 engine being "not quite right" and been told they'd check it out on the overnight but to get his ass in the air to avoid a fine from the gummint. They're on climb out, pop one, C/A goes all ninjahands probably cursing mx and thinking "I KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN!" and...shuts down #1...
MaRiO FDZ
JJ Abrams you Insensitive Bastard.
I believe that. I trained with dozens of Asian pilot students and they do what Sensei says, no matter how wrong that could be, no questions asked.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Well, I mean, while there's absolutely no excuse for not properly verifying which engine has failed before you start yanking levers and such, it does make it a bit more understandable if they guy was already sitting there halfway expecting #1 to fail.
MaRiO FDZ
JJ Abrams you Insensitive Bastard.
Agreed. What makes this even harder to believe is why start yanking levers if you have Autofeather. Fly the airplane, fly the airplane, fly the airplane.
fholbert
Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Before anyone latches onto this idea, I'm doing some research to figure out if the airline would have been fined for a maintenance delay. Personally, having operated in Taiwan many times, I doubt it. My guess is something is being lost in translation. Aviation rules in Taiwan are actually rather modern and progressive. In fact, I've found their SOPs to be overly conservative at times.
Stay tuned.
Baronpilot244
Killick Stoker
If in fact one needs to do anything except fly the airplane to safe altitude at that point...
Bp244
Runincolorado
Well-Known Member
Its sad that some of those individuals with high time, with a check airman or CFI on board, end up forgetting the basics, crashing and killing so many. They seemed to have all of the cards in their favor, yet they still shut down the wrong engine and flew it into the ground. It is also really sobering that guys with these many hours could screw it up. Time to go back and do some single engine ops tomorrow.
Soul Brotha'
Off to go do Black guy stuff
Does dead leg, dead engine apply here? Or did it happen so fast that they were just so overwhelmed?
z987k
Well-Known Member
Of course it applies. Nothing happens so fast you can't take... minutes to think about it. All they had to do was fly the airplane. Literally do nothing except pitch for V2(+something maybe)
knot4u
Repeat Offender
Wouldn't the training that an airline provides prevent the crew from being overwhelmed by an engine failure?
flyingbum
Needz Re-Edjamacayshun
WTF? We're all gonna need eleventy billion hours and a Space Shuttle landing just to fly an RJ if Pilots keep doing stupid crap like this. Enter the drones because, you know, "look how stupid those pilots are." Fly the frickin airplane, look at the frickin gauges before you yank on levers. Ugh..... !
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Identify.....verify....
Yet more evidence that even the most trained or highly experienced aviators can, in the stress of a moment, fail to act in accordance with even the most basic airmanship tasks.
There is an F-15E that was lost into the swamps of North Carolina when an engine caught fire and the pilot shut down the wrong engine, too, so it isn't just "those wacky Asian pilots".
Yet more evidence that even the most trained or highly experienced aviators can, in the stress of a moment, fail to act in accordance with even the most basic airmanship tasks.
There is an F-15E that was lost into the swamps of North Carolina when an engine caught fire and the pilot shut down the wrong engine, too, so it isn't just "those wacky Asian pilots".
