ATP written deadline approaching

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propsync

Well-Known Member
Looks like we are 6 weeks out before the new ATP written rules take effect.

For those working for a regional airline already, how will your company handle new hires going forward who have the 1500 hours but do not have the ATP written completed because of the unique requirements to get a signoff to take the written? What I'm getting at is will your airline incorporate the ATP written exam into their training syllabus as part of initial training or is the applicant on his/her own to come to initial training with the written exam in hand?

Another question- in order to get the written signoff, one of the unique requirements is to get training in a level C sim for an aircraft that has a MGTOW of 40,000 lbs or more. I know there are smaller airlines like Silver flying Saabs only whos sims do not meet this weight requirement. How will airlines that fly smaller aircraft (saabs, 1900's etc..) handle this if they are willing to provide the training to new hires?
 
Here at Republic we do not plan more than 24 hours in advance, therefore I do not understand the question and will not respond to it.

It's going to be interesting because the normal sequence (read: less stressful) is to come in with the written, ground school, oral, sim training, sim checkride. It's nice because you can focus on the oral and sims separately.

Now since you have to have completed the written before you can start a checkride, it's going to have to be: ground school, sim training, written, oral, sim ride. Doing the three rounds of testing back to back is going to suck.
 
I just looked at this article: http://www.avweb.com/news/features/The-New-ATPA-Brief-Window-Before-the-Sky-Falls221453-1.html

It appears that this new ATP restriction should be a non-issue for most RJ carriers. They'll hire you with ATP minimums but no ATP written completed. Ground school (Basic Indoc and Systems) should cover all of the required topics and will easily occupy the required 30 hours. I don't know of any airline that gives you less than 10 hours of sim training.

Regionals may have to tweak their syllabus slightly to cover all of the requirements and check all of the boxes, but I think the only noticeable difference to new-hires will be that they give you a day or two off between your final sim and your check ride to go take the ATP written.
 
adk said:
I just looked at this article: http://www.avweb.com/news/features/The-New-ATPA-Brief-Window-Before-the-Sky-Falls221453-1.html

It appears that this new ATP restriction should be a non-issue for most RJ carriers. They'll hire you with ATP minimums but no ATP written completed. Ground school (Basic Indoc and Systems) should cover all of the required topics and will easily occupy the required 30 hours. I don't know of any airline that gives you less than 10 hours of sim training.

Regionals may have to tweak their syllabus slightly to cover all of the requirements and check all of the boxes, but I think the only noticeable difference to new-hires will be that they give you a day or two off between your final sim and your check ride to go take the ATP written.
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Yup. Airlines already train most of the new requirements. They just need to add a new written test and a bit more to their ground school.

Also according to the AC the FAA put out about the new requirements you can obtain a deviation from the weight restriction. That means places like silver may be able to issue ATPs just like everyone else.
 
[QUOTE="glassnpowder98, post: 2301923, member: 30400
Now since you have to have completed the written before you can start a checkride, it's going to have to be: ground school, sim training, written, oral, sim ride. Doing the three rounds of testing back to back is going to suck.[/QUOTE]

What's to say you couldn't do the oral at the end of ground school/procedures training first and take the written during sim training? Most airlines have more than 10 hours of sim (closer to 24-30). So you could take the written after sim 3 (assuming 4 hour sim blocks)
 
broncoav8r said:
What's to say you couldn't do the oral at the end of ground school/procedures training first and take the written during sim training? Most airlines have more than 10 hours of sim (closer to 24-30). So you could take the written after sim 3 (assuming 4 hour sim blocks)
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm almost positive you have to enter your written test results into IACRA before you can start any part of the checkride. I remember bringing in my written test report to the oral, then discontinuing, going to sim training, and then finishing the checkride in the sim.
 
Depends on how they decide to do the paperwork I suppose and whether it's traditional or AQP.

My inital ATP was done in recurrent, but iirc, there is a box on the form for "completion on the basis of air carriers approved training program". One way to look at it is if the ATP is granted as part of a approved process through this program, where the oral/written falls in relation to the type ride is already approved by the fsdo
 
To be honest, I haven't really paid attention to the ATP written changes.

What's to keep someone from getting an ATP single engine and then adding-on the multi-engine to their single-engine ATP?

AOPA has been saying that the ATP course is not required to take the ATP written if you're only trying to get a single engine ATP.
 
Adding on multi engine to a single engine ATP after July 31, will require you to take another written. Other than a few vague words in 61.156(f)(2), I have not read anything about them creating a different written test for a multi engine ATP.

So it would appear that a single engine ATP holder needs to go back and take the exact same written he took in the first place, again, before August 1, 2014, to take advantage of the grandfathering provisions in 61.155(d). It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I am assuming the single engine ATP holder would only need to take the add-on ATP written, but I have no idea where to find out for sure. Traditionally the add-on test was only for guys with different category ratings.
 
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broncoav8r said:
[QUOTE="glassnpowder98, post: 2301923, member: 30400
Now since you have to have completed the written before you can start a checkride, it's going to have to be: ground school, sim training, written, oral, sim ride. Doing the three rounds of testing back to back is going to suck.
Click to expand...

What's to say you couldn't do the oral at the end of ground school/procedures training first and take the written during sim training? Most airlines have more than 10 hours of sim (closer to 24-30). So you could take the written after sim 3 (assuming 4 hour sim blocks)[/QUOTE]

I don't think the time you spend as the PM during sim school counts, but it still should just about be covered at most airlines.
 
Apparently it is a bigger deal than I thought ... Flew to Des Moines today with a training department guy ... He said that people will need to have their ATP written complete BEFORE starting part 121 ground school.
 
adk said:
Apparently it is a bigger deal than I thought ... Flew to Des Moines today with a training department guy ... He said that people will need to have their ATP written complete BEFORE starting part 121 ground school.
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Which airline?
 
raysalmon said:
Adding on multi engine to a single engine ATP after July 31, will require you to take another written. Other than a few vague words in 61.156(f)(2), I have not read anything about them creating a different written test for a multi engine ATP.

So it would appear that a single engine ATP holder needs to go back and take the exact same written he took in the first place, again, before August 1, 2014, to take advantage of the grandfathering provisions in 61.155(d). It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I am assuming the single engine ATP holder would only need to take the add-on ATP written, but I have no idea where to find out for sure. Traditionally the add-on test was only for guys with different category ratings.
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This is the first I have heard of this.
 
adk said:
Apparently it is a bigger deal than I thought ... Flew to Des Moines today with a training department guy ... He said that people will need to have their ATP written complete BEFORE starting part 121 ground school.
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That is dumb. Ain't no way they're gonna find enough people who have the cash to pay for one of those ridiculous ATP courses to keep their operation running. I can guarantee they're just going to end up doing it in ground school.
 
raysalmon said:
Adding on multi engine to a single engine ATP after July 31, will require you to take another written. Other than a few vague words in 61.156(f)(2), I have not read anything about them creating a different written test for a multi engine ATP.

So it would appear that a single engine ATP holder needs to go back and take the exact same written he took in the first place, again, before August 1, 2014, to take advantage of the grandfathering provisions in 61.155(d). It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I am assuming the single engine ATP holder would only need to take the add-on ATP written, but I have no idea where to find out for sure. Traditionally the add-on test was only for guys with different category ratings.
Click to expand...

Update on this...they ARE creating new ATP tests, effective August 1, 2014. There will be separate single and multi engine tests (see June 2014 edition of the FAA knowledge test guide).

It is still unclear whether a single engine ATP holder can go take another pre-August style written test and use it for the multi engine practical test within 24 months.
 
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