ATP Seminole Fleet

L

Lynxman

New Member
I came over from FI to clear some info up. I am the original thread starter and noticed this was posted here and caused much debate an anger. The fleet is not grounded, but I don't know how long it will be before possibly happening. I come here as the inbetween guy. All of this was told to me by my friend who had just taken his MEI ride with them a few days ago. His DPE was on the phone with the president of ATP and Lycoming trying to get this resolved. Apparantly ATP's president told the DP to pound sand. This seemed to make this DP upset so I guess this is his personal vendetta now to get resolved. None the less my buddy passed his checkride using a plane foound to be in compliance thankfully. The AD's in question can be found on the old thread. I come here not trying to rile anyone up, but merely to use this as a way for all of us to know our airplanes better. I can say that when I did my multi with ATP I didn't look at any of the AD's concerning the airplane. I think this should be an eye opener to all of us. Thank you
 
A far better thread title....one that isn't presenting any rumor as fact, and better to present said info as secondhand and just something heard, and with a little background.

Alot of headache could've been saved before, had it been done this way.
 
As an A&P, I'm kind of curious about the details...what AD? Why was the compliance in question/debatable?
 
Roger said:
As an A&P, I'm kind of curious about the details...what AD? Why was the compliance in question/debatable?
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IDK but there is some type of 50 hour AD w/ the engines, maybe oil change or something w/ the exhaust if memory serves me right?
 
MikeD said:
A far better thread title....one that isn't presenting any rumor as fact, and better to present said info as secondhand and just something heard, and with a little background.

Alot of headache could've been saved before, had it been done this way.
Click to expand...
Yes thanks to the OP for that and coming over to clarify. Cheers.
 
I dont read flightinfo -- don't pay for it. Can you post the AD # here? The maintenance at ATP was by far the best I've seen at any flight school.
 
jhugz said:
IDK but there is some type of 50 hour AD w/ the engines, maybe oil change or something w/ the exhaust if memory serves me right?
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I do not believe that the 50 hour oil change is an AD.

It could be one of the Lycoming crankshaft ADs.
 
I have always been amazed at how impeccable the planes at ATP are maintained. I wonder why they have a 50 hr oil change AD anyway. The oil seems pretty clean in planes close to 100 hour. Even in the 100 plus Texas summers.
 
If I had to bet, I would bet on ATP having a better understanding of AD's affecting seminoles than the DPE.
 
casey said:
If I had to bet, I would bet on ATP having a better understanding of AD's affecting seminoles than the DPE.
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True, but you have to remember who we are talking about here. It can get frustrating when you are dealing with the Gov.
 
casey said:
If I had to bet, I would bet on ATP having a better understanding of AD's affecting seminoles than the DPE.
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But if it is an AD it has to be followed. Last time I checked it didnt say, "Every PA-44 with the exception of ATP's fleet." The DPE's typically are rather smart professional men and women.
 
I instructed in a seminole, (not associated with ATP, just an FBO).

The AD is an Oil Additive that must be put in with every 50 hour oil change.

We always did an oil change at 50 hours, so I don't know if that then makes an oil change at 50 hours law, I doubt it does as long as the additive is added, but that is just my opinion.

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When I did a rating at ATP I was impressed with mx, but I can see how skipping that could really cut some costs, and I would be none the wiser.
Appearically (<---Needs to be added to dictionary) the plane looked and flew great.
 
As requested here is the AD's.
http://www.lycoming.com/support/publications/service-bulletins/pdfs/SB446E.pdf

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgAD.nsf/0/3A8A6503A307817086256841005AAC82?OpenDocument

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSAIB.nsf/(LookupSAIBs)/NE-06-31R2?OpenDocument

If you change the oil every 50 hours using oil that has been accepted by Lycoming then you do not have to add the additive, but if you choose to run the engines past 50 hours on the same oil then a simple additive is required to be added. The links describe why it is necessary. Any seminole owner/operator should check to make sure that this is taken care of. Last thing we would want is an engine to fail due to a simple mistake/negligence on their part. Hope this helps!! fly safe and Merry Christmas!<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->
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SAIB NE-06-31R2 said:
We have determined that the anti-wear additive contained in the engine lubricating oils listed in Table 1 of this SAIB is the same as Textron Lycoming additive, LW-16702, and therefore meets the requirements of Lycoming Service Bulletins 446B, 446C, 446D, and 446E. We approved changing to these oil brands as an AMOC to the requirements of AD 80-04-03 R2, paragraph b.1, with the limitations described below.
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Is it possible that ATP just uses an oil as approved by the SAIB and the AD compliance might be a pencil whipping issue?
 
Not sure if this is true but a friend of mine claims that ATP is heavily leveraged on some sketchy lines of credit and that they could become the next Silver State, no facts to back it up just second hand info. However, if I'm not mistaken ATP did file bankruptcy 5 or 6 years ago under a different name so there is a president?
But lets put all that aside for a moment and look at the fundamentals of the operation; ATP unlike other firms such as sportys or flight safety has effectively one revenue channel, flight training, they don't make videos or pilot supplies or anything like that they simply offer quick and easy training. Now lets look at the underpinning of this revenue channel; it's backbone, with a few possible exceptions, is the quick availability of huge lines of credit for the zero to hero SJS crowd. Now FF to today, lending has collapsed and is next to non existent; so for the life of me I cannot understand how an operation who's entire underpinnings have collapsed can afford to keep the doors open. All of which goes back to my original point which is that the only way you can sustain this type of operation is through heavy amounts of debt and as Silver State learned your next bet can only cover you last disaster for so long. I hope no one will take this as a slight against ATP I think they offer a damm fine product I just don't understand how they keep the lights on.
 
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