***ATP PRICE INCREASE*** as of 7/1/08

bennie wennies and romen

Who are these guys?

:sarcasm:

but the fact remains that 190 ME hours and all ratings for $59995

Why does that matter?--either they're hiring at 500/50 (or even less) or they are not hiring at all (190 ME or not).

Keep flying but slow down--no need to rush at this point--first hired, first furloughed if you know what I mean-maybe in the summer months the industry will pick up a little.
 
I do see the increase in price as a little shock as they just increased prices not too long ago. I am sitting here in Richmond waiting for my startdate(monday). I find it amusing all the naysayers bashing ATP, and saying its a waste of money, time, etc.

I agree its alot of money. And I also agree the program isnt for everybody. But to me its kind of rediculous to tell people their idiots for doing something that works for them. Last time I checked, nobody here is Dave Ramsey.

I am married, and my wife has her masters. She is pulling in close to 70k right now(sugar momma) as a travelling OT. I worked my arse off to help her finish school and let her do what she has dreamed of doing. Now its my turn, and thats being a pilot. I do not have any school debt. So its a wash to me when people critisize people for dropping 55k (soon to be 60k) for pilot ratings, when you could very easily spend the same amount going to college. My wife was very good at budgeting, but she still came out with 80k in school debt. So each path has its pro's and con's.

I could spend a year or two flippin burgers to try and save to fly. But why? Everything around me is telling me the costs to become a pilot are going to get higher. Higher fuel costs(talk to ur CFI, I bet these costs have him worried), More regulation(user fees pending in congress), and overall the worsening of the economy. Our dollar just doesnt buy what it used to. I forsee less people entering aviation, but to me and I believe every other commercial pilot out there as a good thing. Less supply, more demand, higher pay. The baby boomers are starting to retire, even with the new age 65 retirement rule, its only postponing the inevitable. Pilots are going to be in HIGH demand. Look it up, research it.

And I could very well follow a path that I make big bucks, but I wouldnt enjoy it. And as far as I know, in this "game" of life, there is no reset button. I would rather spend 40 years doing something I love and get paid crap to do it, than be miserable and try to replace that happiness by being materialistic.

Anyways, Im going to ATP. I am excited to do it. It works for me. Flying is what I love to do and what I have always dreamed of doing. IMO flying in the first row of any RJ is the best office in the world. The view is constantly changing, challenging, and fun. Anyways, I felt to unleash my opinion to combat all the people who will spend their days bashing ATP and programs like it because they will never realize that life is short, money in the end is just a piece of paper. And happy comes from the heart. So I would tell you to follow your heart, and live a happy life in whatever you do.
 
alright whoever said ATP is trying to use this marketing technique is right and thank you.

Today, I got a voicemail saying when can I start and let them know. They even said when will I put my deposit.

I also receive an email saying that too saying "do this before price increase".:mad:

Now I'm not saying negative anything about ATP but I feel like I've been rushed to get into the program when last week I told them I had change of plans b/c of school.
 
I feel bad for the people who are going to go through the program in 4 or 5 months only to find out there are few companies hiring.
 
It seems the general consensus here is that ATP is in some way a form of charity. Wrong, theyre in the biz to make money! If they can get people to sign up and pay $100,000 for the ACP, I have no doubt that they will raise the price.

Obviously, $60,000 is too much money. But as long as people keep signing up, ATP is gonna keep raising the price. Hell, I would raise the price too if I ran ATP!

I feel bad for the people who are going to go through the program in 4 or 5 months only to find out there are few companies hiring.
I dont! If someone is gonna drop $60k on something, they better do thier research and KNOW what theyre getting into! I dont feel bad for ignorance
 
And I could very well follow a path that I make big bucks, but I wouldnt enjoy it. And as far as I know, in this "game" of life, there is no reset button. I would rather spend 40 years doing something I love and get paid crap to do it, than be miserable and try to replace that happiness by being materialistic.

Well said. As I said I'm not planning on going to ATP, but if I were in your shoes ATP would most likely be my choice too with no second thoughts. Let others go to Shebles or Ariben and save their 10k... do what works for you.
 
I do see the increase in price as a little shock as they just increased prices not too long ago. I am sitting here in Richmond waiting for my startdate(monday). I find it amusing all the naysayers bashing ATP, and saying its a waste of money, time, etc.

I agree its alot of money. And I also agree the program isnt for everybody. But to me its kind of rediculous to tell people their idiots for doing something that works for them. Last time I checked, nobody here is Dave Ramsey.

I am married, and my wife has her masters. She is pulling in close to 70k right now(sugar momma) as a travelling OT. I worked my arse off to help her finish school and let her do what she has dreamed of doing. Now its my turn, and thats being a pilot. I do not have any school debt. So its a wash to me when people critisize people for dropping 55k (soon to be 60k) for pilot ratings, when you could very easily spend the same amount going to college. My wife was very good at budgeting, but she still came out with 80k in school debt. So each path has its pro's and con's.

I could spend a year or two flippin burgers to try and save to fly. But why? Everything around me is telling me the costs to become a pilot are going to get higher. Higher fuel costs(talk to ur CFI, I bet these costs have him worried), More regulation(user fees pending in congress), and overall the worsening of the economy. Our dollar just doesnt buy what it used to. I forsee less people entering aviation, but to me and I believe every other commercial pilot out there as a good thing. Less supply, more demand, higher pay. The baby boomers are starting to retire, even with the new age 65 retirement rule, its only postponing the inevitable. Pilots are going to be in HIGH demand. Look it up, research it.

And I could very well follow a path that I make big bucks, but I wouldnt enjoy it. And as far as I know, in this "game" of life, there is no reset button. I would rather spend 40 years doing something I love and get paid crap to do it, than be miserable and try to replace that happiness by being materialistic.

Anyways, Im going to ATP. I am excited to do it. It works for me. Flying is what I love to do and what I have always dreamed of doing. IMO flying in the first row of any RJ is the best office in the world. The view is constantly changing, challenging, and fun. Anyways, I felt to unleash my opinion to combat all the people who will spend their days bashing ATP and programs like it because they will never realize that life is short, money in the end is just a piece of paper. And happy comes from the heart. So I would tell you to follow your heart, and live a happy life in whatever you do.
Its a whole different game when you go in with zero (outside) debt, a college degree, and a sugar mama. Have fun in richmond its a good location!
 
You only get about 140 hrs of actual multi time. 50 in a simulator and around 75 hrs of that is flying xc splitting time with a "safety pilot," at full price of course. So if you just divide the cost by the total trainig hours it comes to $315 hr but you can manipulate the numbers either way.
 
The thing about ATP is the high multi time. That's why it's expensive. I don't really think it's worth it considering you could instruct for a time, to IFR 135 mins, then get a twin job with very little multi time. Yeah, it will cost you an extra six months to a year, but I don't think that's a big deal in the overall scheme of things. It will give you options and make you a better than average pilot when you move up the ladder.
I am mainly an instrument and multi instructor, problem is, I rarely touch the controls, I am just riding along, monitoring. Not exactly the best thing for your piloting skills...
 
I am mainly an instrument and multi instructor, problem is, I rarely touch the controls, I am just riding along, monitoring. Not exactly the best thing for your piloting skills...
The stick and rudder stuff takes 5 minutes to get back. Your comfort level with all things multi-engine and instrument from instructing will be invaluable.

Seriously, you're not getting rusty. You're probably at the peak of your personal piloting abilities if you're CFII'ing full time.
 
I feel bad for the people who are going to go through the program in 4 or 5 months only to find out there are few companies hiring.

I went through the program a year ago and instructed till 1000 TT, and Ive been overwhelmed with all the offers I received (just accepted a corporate job @75 an hour). I doubt its going down soon.



PS I havn't endorsed ATP anymore since three prices increases ago, though I fully endorse accellerated schools ATP style.
 
The stick and rudder stuff takes 5 minutes to get back. Your comfort level with all things multi-engine and instrument from instructing will be invaluable.

Seriously, you're not getting rusty. You're probably at the peak of your personal piloting abilities if you're CFII'ing full time.

I just talked to a cargo pilot (captain), and talking about his FO's, he said that although the 1000 hour CFI's were a tad better on the radio and decision skills, the 250 hour pilots fresh out of school could shoot approaches as an average far better then the higher time CFI's.

Maybe the airlines found that lowering minimums actually helps?
 
I've been playing microsoft flight sim to keep my ILS' sharp. Say what you will, this piece of software is the single best thing any IFR pilot could own.
 
I've been playing microsoft flight sim to keep my ILS' sharp. Say what you will, this piece of software is the single best thing any IFR pilot could own.

Agreed. Our school FAA approved sim is horrible in comparison and I get much more out of shooting an approach on my computer at home.

-Rob
 
I just talked to a cargo pilot (captain), and talking about his FO's, he said that although the 1000 hour CFI's were a tad better on the radio and decision skills, the 250 hour pilots fresh out of school could shoot approaches as an average far better then the higher time CFI's.

Maybe the airlines found that lowering minimums actually helps?

Decision making and overall knowledge and experience makes a better pilot than stick and rudder skills hands down.

And I disagree with CFI's not being a good stick. I could school any of my students in the sim and the airplane, regardless of their experience level! Not just primary ACP instrument students either, but the guys that I trained for the ATP or multi add on... Im just sayin... lol

Theres really no excuse for a CFI to let thier skills decline by not flying, even CFIIs that only teach IFR. Thats just being a lazy instructor. I ALWAYS demonstrated all maneuvers and procedures the first time in the airplane, and made it a point to always demo 1 thing on every flight, even if it wasnt new to the student. Its not that I was stealing stick time from the kids, but for a lot of people actually seeing the manuever/procedure done the right way is worth many hours of "explaining".
 
Decision making and overall knowledge and experience makes a better pilot than stick and rudder skills hands down.

I think that Decision making and overall knowledge and experience makes is what will make you have better stick and rudder skills. As a CFI you know you have taught your students well when they can anticipate what's coming next instead of always reacting. I taught mostly addon's at ATP and 90% of their flying skills were average or less. But with that said ATP students, IMHO are were better stick and rudder pilots that those that took the FBO route.
 
I taught mostly addon's at ATP and 90% of their flying skills were average or less. But with that said ATP students, IMHO are were better stick and rudder pilots that those that took the FBO route.

So true! I noticed that as well (at least my students were good lol)
 
People that go to ATP are ones of a certain mindset. I was surrounded by people who wanted it as bad as I wanted it. I instruct at an FBO, very few of my students show the same drive as I had and that of the people I went to Stuart with.
 
WOW! has anyone check the site lately?

They had already increased the price already! wtf?! The guy that emailed me last time said it was going to increase in july but guess not.

QUOTE:

Beginning in June, the price of the Airline Career Pilot Program (ACPP) will increase to $59,995. This price change is the direct result of increasing aircraft operating costs, especially fuel. ATP maintains an up-front pricing policy, and never charges more than the cost quoted at the time of scheduling. To accommodate students who have been planning to enroll in ATP’s Airline Career Pilot Program, we have established the following dates for the price change to allow students to still receive the lower cost program if they act soon.
How to Take Advantage of the Lower Prices

ATP will honor the old $54,995 Airline Career Pilot Program price for students who:
  • Place a Deposit by 5/30/08, AND
    • Start the Private Pilot addition to the Airline Career Pilot Program by 6/2/08, OR
    • Start the Airline Career Pilot Program 90 Day Fast Track by 6/30/08, OR
    • Start the Airline Career Pilot Program Self-Paced Curriculum by 5/31/08.
Students who wish to enroll in the Self-Paced ACPP with the Private Pilot addition will be subject to the $59,995 plus $8,995 price.
Any students who have already placed a deposit, regardless of start date, will receive the price that they were quoted.

The Regional Jet Cert. will go up to $6,995 by end of May whereas the old price $5,995. :(
 
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