***ATP PRICE INCREASE*** as of 7/1/08

alloyicon said:
ATP is not a bad school according to my private pilot flight instructor. I had a talk with him to get his introspective on my best course of action for obtaining my Instrument through CFII MEI ratings.
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This isn't about whether ATP is a bad school...you get your ratings and learn your stuff but why in the hell would anyone pay $60K to get IFR thru CFI/II/MEI????

That's insane. You could do it for half the cost at a FBO...and more than likely you could do it the same time frame or just slightly longer if you were working your butt off flying 6-7 days a week.
 
I hate to say it.

But you have to be pretty damn dumb to spend 60k on flight training. I mean really, when you do the math (like someone above did) and see how much an hour will cost. . .it's just stupid.
 
ATP is not a bad school according to my private pilot flight instructor. I had a talk with him to get his introspective on my best course of action for obtaining my Instrument throught CFII MEI ratings.

My CFI told me that his favorite rating to teach is the IFR rating. Knowing that he gets the greatest satisfaction out of instructing his IFR students, he still told me and I quote "I whole heartedly recommend ATP." He did the ATP 90 day program and said it is the best way to go. (Now I take that to mean the best way one can go if one can afford it)

I have given this a lot of though taking into account the opinions of a few of you JC's that have been extremely helpful in taking the time to answer my ATP related questions.

I interviewed with ATP which cost me $100.00 for the CFI's time and the 10 or so minutes in the simulator. ( I thought the sim. was more a tool for ATP to see if I could follow instructions. I say this because the sim @ KRAL was very touchy and I had trouble holding altitude. I was not happy with my performance. I'm assuming that the instructor took into account that it was my first time ever in a sim.) I even applied and was approved though Wachovia (my dad co-borrowed) for the full $58,995 (which included checkrides) @ 7.5% variable APR.

After all that I have decided that it is in my best interest financially to pursue my flight training in a quick paced (accelerated) yet cost effective manner. This is my plan of action.

I will be earning my Instrument Rating at one of those 10 Day IFR schools. Many of the 10 Day IFR courses guarantee you will complete your rating in 10 Days or any additional "instruction costs" are on them. You would still have to pay for any additional aircraft or sim rental.

I will then be heading off to the Midwest to get my Multi-Engine through CFII /MEI ratings at a small FBO.
 
WindyCityPilot said:
This isn't about whether ATP is a bad school...you get your ratings and learn your stuff but why in the hell would anyone pay $60K to get IFR thru CFI/II/MEI????

That's insane. You could do it for half the cost at a FBO...and more than likely you could do it the same time frame or just slightly longer if you were working your butt off flying 6-7 days a week.
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Sorry about that. I must have unintentionally submitted the first few lines of my post before I had finished writing it. So I deleted the unintentional post after having submitted my intended post.

But I agree with you completely!
 
WindyCityPilot said:
Can we get a list of people to stand in the parking lot of ATP sites and slap the crap out of people walking in and out of the door.

I'm not even trying to fly for a living and it pisses me off at the price they charge and how much it has gone up in the past few years. I remember looking at them back in '03 when I was considering making the jump....I thought they were expensive back then.
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I'd be slapping myself too had I run up a $60,000 flight training debt:banghead:
 
surreal1221 said:
I hate to say it.

But you have to be pretty damn dumb to spend 60k on flight training. I mean really, when you do the math (like someone above did) and see how much an hour will cost. . .it's just stupid.
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My local FBO charges $240 an hour for a 70's vintage Dutchess and $45 / hr for the instructor. Add in ground time and you're looking at $300 /hr for flight/gas/instruction... that's without the all the instructional structure, history, reputation and connections ATP has behind it. My sister in law paid 40k a year to NYU for a masters in Art History... she makes only slightly more than a regional FO... Looking at it that way ATP is a pretty good deal.
 
There's no doubt there are way cheaper options out there, and if you get lucky options nearly as fast too.

But if you're going to college anyways (like everyone should) just take your time and spread it out, save $20k, get the same regional job as everyone else.
 
doog said:
My local FBO charges $240 an hour for a 70's vintage Dutchess and $45 / hr for the instructor. Add in ground time and you're looking at $300 /hr for flight/gas/instruction... that's without the all the instructional structure, history, reputation and connections ATP has behind it. My sister in law paid 40k a year to NYU for a masters in Art History... she makes only slightly more than a regional FO... Looking at it that way ATP is a pretty good deal.
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But your sister has a masters degree. . .which is transferable to other professions.

Flying skills are not transferable to other professions. Spending 60k for those skills / knowledge / education is not a wise decision.

I know people will continue to rationalize their thoughts on why they should spend 60k on flight training. Doesn't make that rationalization correct though.

What's sad, is that you actually think ATP's connection will help you get a job when the airlines come to a halt in hiring (the brakes have already started to apply).

Then next thing you know, you're stuck with a 60k loan, flight instructing at 15 - 25 an hour, trying to make a loan payment in excess of $800 a month.

Hell, buy a house - get a mortgage. That's a better investment than flight training right now, and that's tough to say.

Also, let's not try to compare NYU to ATP. Perhaps ATP to your local junior college, but not to a University that actually provides some sort of profession transferability when you can't use your flying skills.
 
After looking around I decided to go the FBO route, I’m saving 30G’s and get to live where I want to. I was really in no hurry to go to the airlines or anything,.; I’m sure after this announcement a lot of people will start rethinking going to ATP. There is a lot to do with an extra thirty grand.
 
doog said:
My local FBO charges $240 an hour for a 70's vintage Dutchess and $45 / hr for the instructor. Add in ground time and you're looking at $300 /hr for flight/gas/instruction... that's without the all the instructional structure, history, reputation and connections ATP has behind it. My sister in law paid 40k a year to NYU for a masters in Art History... she makes only slightly more than a regional FO... Looking at it that way ATP is a pretty good deal.
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Comparing NYU to ATP is like comparing a Silver to Aluminum. A flight school is a flight school, on the other hand not all Universities are looked at the same some are top tier like NYU some are not like Chico State. Now with the slow down in hiring I really don’t see a problem with taking an extra four or five months to complete my ratings, and I will still have an extra 30G’s that I could have gave away to ATP for the same result.
 
What blows my mind is how they feel they can justify a $5,000 increase, especially when they raised their price by the same amount not too long ago. To me, it is a warning sign to stay away.
 
I brought home $1300 last month. An $800 loan payment is no big deal. :sarcasm:

Wait, I had $170 in per diem too.
 
cwu50 said:
Now with the slow down in hiring I really don’t see a problem with taking an extra four or five months to complete my ratings, and I will still have an extra 30G’s that I could have gave away to ATP for the same result.
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That decision is up to you, but the fact remains that 190 ME hours and all ratings for $59995 is about $315 /hr... not much more per hour than it would cost at my local FBO. I highly doubt any apples to apples comparison will pencil out to 30k difference. When you factor in the typical scheduling hassles, inconsistent syllabus and hit or miss local instructors, the local route might end up costing you more in time and more in money. ATP is a known quantity in the industry. I'm not planning to go to ATP, but I do know people who have who have recently finished and are now logging turbine time. Keep in mind that not raising prices given the spike in fuel prices and inflation pushing north of 4% would be tantamount to a price cut.
 
You know, I never got into this profession because it made logical sense! I made it because I enjoy it! Theres nothing else I'd rather be doing, nothing. If you don't feel the same way, you probably picked the wrong job.
 
The thing about ATP is the high multi time. That's why it's expensive. I don't really think it's worth it considering you could instruct for a time, to IFR 135 mins, then get a twin job with very little multi time. Yeah, it will cost you an extra six months to a year, but I don't think that's a big deal in the overall scheme of things. It will give you options and make you a better than average pilot when you move up the ladder.
 
My local FBO just went up on a twin from 219 to 225 an hour, plus 45 an hour for instructor. I looked at completing all the ratings and aquiring the same hours that ATP offers at a local FBO, and the FBO was about 15k less. BUT, I have no way of getting any finances to pay for or help out my living expenses, and the interest rate for the local FBO route can be as much as double the rate that the large, expensive schools can get. Because of long weather delays, at times 3 weeks between lessons, my Private has taken about 3 months longer than I had planned, and costing more, due to repeat lessons. I am in a position that I need to start earning money, logically, ATP makes sense to me, financially, not sure if flying makes any sense or not!
 
I almost forgot. The loan payment for my local FBO w/o living expenses was around $800 and ATP will be $675. And I must not forget my *?@?? Sallie Mae loan for my Private, $230. Yea, it is looking like bennie wennies and romen for quite some time.
 
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