ATP or Aviator College

PLANECOOK

PLANECOOK

Well-Known Member
Considering a custom finish up program with ATP or a program at Aviator college? Looking for some insight into what fellow jetters might think! I have 245 TT 125 PIC 55 PIC X-country PPL

ATP program!

27 hr Instrument
32 hr Commercial-Multi
--- Multi Private Add-on 2hr additional
7hr Commercial Single Add-on
No ground school

Total $23139 TOTAL MULTI- 34HRS


Aviator Special Program

150 hours Multi Engine Time - Multi Engine Rating,
Multi Engine Instrument Rating &
Multi Engine Commercial
Price includes flight instruction and all ground instruction
Course time is eight weeks or less
*Eight weeks of housing is Included

Total $29999 TOTAL MULTI-- 150HR

Let me know what you think about the programs if you have done them or gone through the 2 schools!
 
No need to get your private multi as well as comm multi. Total waste of time and money. I looked at both schools, and eventually decided to get it done at a local mom and pop school. Choose wisely.
 
NickH said:
Beware of Aviator. In my experience, they do not offer the quality of training you are looking for. Expect everything to take twice as long as quoted and cost 20-50% more.
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Never heard a good thing about them, have close friends that went there, none was satisfied.

I went there with a buddy of mine back in 2007, he wanted to switch schools, and was blown away on how arrogant the owner was to him, racial based jokes...
 
ATP will get you done, but you need to be the type of student who is good and motivated at studying on your own. When you start flight training at ATP you are expected to learn the ground stuff all yourself.

The Aviator package sounds like one of their time building packages with Commercial/Instrument training included. I can't speak for the quality of their flight training but Ft Pierce is literally in the middle of a swamp. Have a car or be ready for 8 weeks of either eating at the airport restaurant or the local Wal-Mart.
 
I am doing some multi time building at Aviator in the next couple weeks. It is cheap, safety pilot time.....but it is one of those things that you get what you pay for. Aviator is a pretty busy school, with several foreign contracts. If you do go there, message me and I can give you some advice with the DPE's in the area.

And, yes. Fort Pierce is in the middle of the swamp. I spent 3 weeks in the Fort Pierce area getting my commercial and starting my CFI (at a part 61), and it took me several days, but I eventually found decent restaurants.
 
Its according to what you want to do.... Best Advice: Get your private at a Part 61 (mom&pop FBO) and while doing that, knock your General Ed classes out at the local Community College. Once you have your PPL and some gen ed classes knocked out, transfer to a 4year Part 141 program.

Heres why... ATP does not have the best turnout rate, and from the hiring managers i've spoken to at Delta and Express Jets QUALITY flight instruction is what they are looking for, and i'm sorry but ATP is not that. The above plan is what I did, currently a Junior at the University of North Dakota "John D Odegard School of Aerospace" .. its a 4 year program so you get your BA in Commercial Aviation or any other aviation degree you chose. THE BIG PART is your ATP requirments. To work for an airline now i'm sure you have read that you have to have your ATP and meet the ATP or R-ATP requirments. If you graduate from a 4-year program the HOURS ARE LOWERED to get your ATP. That is a huge perk! .... it may be cheaper to go to ATP by a little... but look at what you are missing out on! 1) A quality flight education, 2) UND, ERAU, Purdue.. are all FAA Accredited flight universities.. ATP is not, and airlines know that. 3) The money you save by going to ATP you will spend on getting the extra hours which you could not have to get if you go to a 141 flight university 4) ATP you do not get a degree.... Look at the career pages, Airlines "prefer" aviation degrees. Competition is high, you need to go beyond what is preferred. 5) Avit Universities offer CFI jobs after you get your rating which will get your hours QUICK, and they have networks with airlines for job interviews. ie. UND has networks with Delta, Cape Air, Express Jets just to name a few... if you do good, interview is guaranteed through the AP3 program.

Just think it through, but by far a Flight University if VERY MUCH worth it..... ERAU is very expensive, UND is not as bad and has an AMAZING flight program. It was a hard decision for me to make but i'm more than happy with it.

Good Luck!
 
..... also for the Lowered ATP minimums you can still get your PPL at a Part 61 school but your Commercial, Instrument etc must be completed at the part 141 university. Just keep that in mind. (I spent $7,000 for my PPL at a local FBO, UND Charges $12,000) .... so that along with getting the gen ed classes out of the way will save you a lot of money.
 
I am currently attending ATP and have had nothing but QUALITY instruction. It depends on the location you attend. I got my ppl from a mom and pop shop and I think my instruction at atp is much more in depth and stringent. People who don't attend atp are always quick to bash it but people who are currently in the program, most of the time, have nothing but positive things to say.
 
andy hughes said:
I am currently attending ATP and have had nothing but QUALITY instruction. It depends on the location you attend. I got my ppl from a mom and pop shop and I think my instruction at atp is much more in depth and stringent. People who don't attend atp are always quick to bash it but people who are currently in the program, most of the time, have nothing but positive things to say.
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Which location are you at? And which ones should people shy away from?
 
UNDPilot91 said:
Heres why... ATP does not have the best turnout rate, and from the hiring managers i've spoken to at Delta and Express Jets QUALITY flight instruction is what they are looking for, and i'm sorry but ATP is not that.
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Why would an airline care where you got your ratings?
 
I also am currently a student with ATP. I earned my PPL with a mom & pop shop in 2010 and started the airline career program with ATP Richmond in Feb 2013.I have found it to be an EXCELLENT experience. The the instructors in RIC go well above and beyond whatthey are required by the company to do (i.e. giving extensive ground/classroom instruction). That being said, when I was in my cross-country time building phase, and again in CFI school, I saw instructors in the company who simply don't care and don't give much ground, if any. It is all about who you get and how much effort you are willing to put in. If you are seriously considering ATP, I would highly recommend the RIC location, as you will not find better instructors anywhere else. They go well above teaching you to "pass the checkride." I have been fully, if not overly prepared for all my checkrides and have passed all (including CFI initial) with no failures.... we have some tough examiners in Richmond too.

There are a huge number of different ways to get your ratings and hours. You have to figure out what is financially and logistically right for you. I did not attend a 141 University flight program (I have a non-aviation degree), but I can tell you that the airlines do not care where or how you got your ratings. ATP sends scores of its instructors to the airlines and ATP also has airline agreements.... Republic is even interviewing ATP studends after they have secured their commercial ratings and giving them conditional job offers so long as they instruct WITH ATP. I say this with no bias, as I will not be working for the company. I have a gov't job which I need to keep until I go airlines, so I will be instructing at the mom & pop shop near my house in northern va while working fot the gov't.

There is nothing wrong with a University program either.... I have heard great things about some of them. I do know that it can be extremely expensive though. Again, its what is best for you. If you already have a degree...obviosuly a university program would be a huge waste. And as for the "airlines prefer aviation degrees..." that statement is completely false. Talk to any airline pilot... They will all tell you NOT to get an aviation degree. In the even of a furlogh, you want another field to fall back on. I know many pilots, corporate and airline. Very few have aviation degrees. But, on ther other side of that argument, there is nothing wrong with an aviation degree if that is what you want. Bottom line is that you need a 4 year degree...but not in a specific field.

Personally, I don't know much about Aviator. I did look at them when I was researching schools, but at the time they didn't offer financing and I would not have been able to keep my gov't job in Virginia... so ATP was the best fit for me.

I encourage you to take a tour of the ATP location you would be interested in (and the aviator location). Meet the instructors. If you don't like them or think they will do nothing but the minimum, look at another location. Again.... I highly recommend RIC. Jake, Derek and Diego are all really good instructors who go out of their way to ivest in your success.

If you have any specific questions, don't hesitate to ask. Also, take a look at my running experience thread about the ATP program.

Good luck!

Mike
 
I attend ATP at the KPDK location. I just got my Private/Instrument last week and I'm scheduled to take my Private Multi on Monday. I had an awesome instructor for the private/instrument instruction (which is about half of your student time ~100 hrs). I felt really prepared and confident when I had that first checkride last week. My instructor took the time to make sure all three of his students (2 fast paced, and me self paced) were fully ready to go all the while he was interviewing with different regionals and closing in on his 1500 hrs. This past week he has been giving ground instruction to two of us getting ready to take our private multi checks and today was his last day as an instructor (his ATP in hand as of today). Now he's gotta week off until he starts class with ExpressJet next Monday. Pretty cool guy considering most would probably have a "I don't care about instructing" attitude by the time they get to 1000+ hrs dual given.

My next instructor is now the senior instructor at PDK and she's just as great. Gives really extensive ground instruction (with nice hand drawn diagrams/pictures) and is really good up in the air of getting things across to us students. Now I'm probably just lucky in the fact that I've gotten some good instructors so far. I'm not that naive to believe everyone at ATP is good. I've heard some stories of just the opposite and I've seen a few bad ones first hand with other students. But I'd be willing to bet there are more good than naught.

As others have already said though, you need to find out what is going to work best for you. Some background on myself: I'm 28 with a B.S. in Ops Management (non-aviation) from Clemson University. So a 4-year degree flight program would have been a waste of money for myself. I first tried to get into aviation by joining the Air Force via the Academy. Unfortunately, I was diagnosed with asthma as a kid ('grew' out of it by age 12) and that was a disqualifier at the time I was trying to go in. Flew a few times while in college, but not enough to get my private cert. Fast forward a few years later and I found myself working as a Ops Coordinator/Ramp Controller here at KATL (Any of you Delta/Acey/Citrus guys end up on Ramp 5/6 or,9 say hi to Chris with TBI). Being out here re-sparked my love for aviation (being the son of a C-141/C-5 pilot I don't think I ever truly lost it) and I decided to start shopping around for a path of flight instruction that was going to work best for me.

I was fortunate enough to have an opportunity to talk to a few ASA/Expressjet pilots on the bus ride from the employee lot, as well as a few AirTran/Delta mainline pilots about their experiences in the industry. This helped me truly do some soul searching before taking the plunge towards a career in aviation. But since making that leap I've truly enjoyed every step.

So after reading this wall-o-text, if you takeaway anything:

*Shop around some local FBOs/Different Flight Schools. Find the best fit for you and your situation
*Take an intro flight or two (I've seen to many people who've never flown jump into a program like ATP and turn out hating flying *expensive*)
*Commit yourself and study hard no matter which path you choose
*Grab life by the horns and have fun!
 
I went through ATP's Career Pilot program this past winter, the program works great if you are willing to put the time and effort in. I would not hesitate to recommend it at all especially if you already have your private pilot certificate. I passed on the job instructing for ATP and now work at small flight school near my hometown so I can go to college and get a non aviation degree ( thanks post 9/11 GI bill) to give me something to fall back on besides being a pilot or helicopter mechanic. It was a good experience. By the way my instructor at ATP now flys an RJ so don't believe the noise about ATP guys not getting hired.
 
Take an intro flight or two (I've seen to many people who've never flown jump into a program like ATP and turn out hating flying *expensive*)
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I think he already has a private certificate since he's looking for instrument and commercial multi... But I agree, no one should jump into a career training or accelarated program without at LEAST 10 or 20 hours of training.... if not their private in hand. We have had a few guys come to RIC that started from scratch and wash out because they had no idea what they were getting into.
 
AA34 said:
Which location are you at? And which ones should people shy away from?
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I will say I have not personally attended ATP, I have toured the "campus" and heard good and bad stories from pilots who completed the program there.

I will say 100% !! Quality of education and training comes into play when getting hired with an airline. I have attended seminars on campus held by airline representatives as well as met many of them 1 on 1 and the Quality of your flight training is a HUGE factor in employment. Hiring a pilot with a 4-year degree in Commercial aviation from a Quality part 141 flight school VS someone with no college degree or "non-aviation" degree who blew through their ratings in a matter of months has a huge influence in the eyes of hiring representatives. There is a pilot shortage coming through but you have to also look at what makes you better than the pilot market who is at the same stage as you.... ATP is cheaper and faster... but where does it leave you in the long run compared to others. Also, if you have a heart attack and fail your medical, what do you have to fall back on? That is another consideration to look at. Alsooo, try to get your hands on a few airline applications, many state "aviation college degree preferred". Another big thing for me was the financing for ATP vs a Colligiate Airline program. At UND I Finance through Bank of North Dakota where my interest rate is a LOW 1.68% for Aviation students, AND It is a PUBLIC school so I still get financial aid and grants.

Just food for thought, a few things I thought about that swayed me to make the decisions I made. It takes a LOT of thought and research for what is best for you!

Good Luck!
Mike
 
UNDPilot91 said:
Hiring a pilot with a 4-year degree in Commercial aviation from a Quality part 141 flight school VS someone with no college degree or "non-aviation" degree who blew through their ratings in a matter of months has a huge influence in the eyes of hiring representatives.
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I've never been to a "pilot hiring seminar" but I have been to a few airline interviews and my "non-aviation" degree has not only never come up in a negative light, a portion of the interview was spent talking about my experiences outside of aviation and how they've helped develop me as a pilot and person. They didn't seem to have any apprehension in extending an offer, in fact (this is going to boggle the mind) where I did my flight training never came up.

There is a pilot shortage coming through but you have to also look at what makes you better than the pilot market who is at the same stage as you.... ATP is cheaper and faster... but where does it leave you in the long run compared to others.
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About two years ahead on the seniority list. ATP is a quick way to 1500, it is one of the things they do have going for them.

Also, if you have a heart attack and fail your medical, what do you have to fall back on?
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A non-aviation related degree.

That is another consideration to look at. Alsooo, try to get your hands on a few airline applications, many state "aviation college degree preferred".
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I've never seen this.

I'm by no means an ATP fanboy. It's defiantly not for everyone, and has it's share of issues. I think the program works best for someone who holds a 4-year degree (knows how to study) and already has a private.

You have to seriously ask yourself if 7 days a week for the next 2-2.5 years is too much. If it is, no big deal. Guys at the local FBO or University programs do a fine job. In the end (interview) nobody cares where you trained as long as you're competent.
 
Nice post. I am the "4 year degree guy with a PPL". Still trying to decide how to get through my ratings (FBO or ATP). What you posted is consistent with what I've always heard.
 
UNDPilot91 said:
I will say I have not personally attended ATP, I have toured the "campus" and heard good and bad stories from pilots who completed the program there.

Hiring a pilot with a 4-year degree in Commercial aviation from a Quality part 141 flight school VS someone with no college degree or "non-aviation" degree who blew through their ratings in a matter of months has a huge influence in the eyes of hiring representatives. There is a pilot shortage coming through but you have to also look at what makes you better than the pilot market who is at the same stage as you.... ATP is cheaper and faster... but where does it leave you in the long run compared to others.

Just food for thought, a few things I thought about that swayed me to make the decisions I made. It takes a LOT of thought and research for what is best for you!

Good Luck!
Mike
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Not saying your wrong but your statement, "Hiring a pilot with a 4-year degree in Commercial aviation from a Quality part 141 flight school VS someone with no college degree or "non-aviation" degree who blew through their ratings in a matter of months has a huge influence in the eyes of hiring representatives" makes little to no sense. When you complete your licenses and ratings at UND YOU WILL BE IN THE SAME POSITION AS ANYONE ELSE with whatever hours you have. Depending on the experiences you accumulate after receiving your commercial and Flight Instructor licenses will determine the influence you have on hiring representatives, or more important your captain. A UND degree does not define you as an aviator, you define yourself as an aviator.

Good luck to you, and I sincerely hope you are not disappointed when you realize the regional airlines are not the holy grail.
 
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