ATP JAX

T

terrynabet

Well-Known Member
Hello,

My name is Terry, and I'm attending ATP in JAX starting October 6th. I'm very excited on attending and making my dream become true. I've been studying a lot everyday and will be taking the Private Knowledge exam soon. I will be enrolled in both the PVT and ACCP phases. I was wondering why a lot of people don't recommend the JAX location on this forum. I did visit the JAX location, and it seemed alright. Yes the facility did seem quite small, but I don't think that makes a big difference.
 
I went to Panama City for my Private and ACPP and it was pretty chill there. I was in JAX for CFI school and Standardization. So I was in JAX about 20+ days and a few cross country flights as well during my time at ATP. From the stuff I saw there, I was not that impressed. A lot of the instructors there act like they are the top dog and that they are god's gift to aviation. The best is how they would tell you to go preflight an airplane and then you would be done with the preflight and no one would be there. I waited over 40 minutes, on more than one occassion for an instructor to come out to the plane. Not very professional. Especially when they were preaching to us about when you tell a student to be there for a lesson, that the instructor should beat the student by a half hour to prepare. All the white shirt people there think they are immaculate. All they know how to do is criticize people about what they are doing wrong and almost always have a comment for everything. Don't get me wrong, I think ATP gave me my money's worth and I liked training in Panama City, but I hated going to JAX. I referred to it as the twilight zone because when I was there, I always got stuck there longer than I expected. There are good people there. A lot of the students are nice and a couple instructors are cool too. My buddy Adam instructs there. He's really nice. The instructor named Tatara is cool too. I'm sure I missed a couple other nice guys.

Anyways, there are my two cents about ATP JAX.

Ben
 
JetGuys comments were right on with what I have seen as well. Having been through Jax on numerous occasions during the cross country and cfi phases, I could not recommend it to anybody. The staffing at that particular location seemed almost hostile to anybody who wasn't part of their little clique of instructors. (Although I personally never had any problem, viewing their treatment of students and other transients from the outside left a bad taste in my mouth) My problem was with the housing. It was reminiscent of the college dorm lifestyle we all used to live, with constant partying and carrying on, and just general immaturity. I expected alot more professionalism from atp's flagship location.
 
Wow it just seems hard for me to think that ATP JAX has these kind of problems, especially with ATP "HQ" being there. I signed up to go there because it was closer to home and thinking that since thats where corporate is it would be more professional. hmmm. How did you guys get through it when you had these problems? Any advice would be greatly appreciated in case I encounter these issues.
 
ATP Jax is a old boys club. You are either one of the boys or your dirt. When a cross country student walks in the building for the first time and nobody will even look at them let alone talk to them there is a problem. The instructors there treat you like you are wasting there time, when all they are doing is flapping their mouths with other instructors. One time when we got there we needed some gas in the airplane and it was after 5 so the guys that fuel the airplanes hand already left. It took an instructor 45 minutes and 3 remainders to finally stop talking and run a card so we could get fueled and leave. Also for it being the HQ location you would think that ATP would have a much nicer facility there are a lot of locations that are much nicer the JAX. There is a reason that whenever ATP has big wigs looking at the academy they always go to the admin offices and never craig. The one nice thing about the location is that you have access to at least to sims. One at craig and one in the admin offices. If the instructors were more professional and actually seemed to care it would be a lot better, but enough of this rant. If you want to have fun going through ATP go somewhere other than JAX. If you want to save money and maybe have a job after you get all of your ratings dont even bother with ATP to begin with. Getting seniority first only matters if airlines are hiring.
 
I went through the ACPP program at Jax and then instructed their for almost a year. Yes, jax is a little different from the rest of ATP. If you train there, you don't notice it as much compared to coming there from somewhere else. I can say from an instructor position, jax is a very difficult place to work. Jax instructors are under a little more pressure than other locations because of the white shirts who work there. Now, I will say, that if you work hard and prove yourself, the cheif and assistant chief can be pretty cool, the cheif pilot especially. However, he is old school and you have to earn his respect. Don't complain, just work hard and prove yourself. The cheif will make jokes, that's what is great about him, just get used to it and enjoy it. The one thing that I do feel adds the most stress is the examiner who works at Jax. He acts like a boss to instructors and treats them very poorly, making training much more stressful for the instructors. If you can get acclimated to the climate that is ATP jax, you will do well. Is it as relaxed as some locations? No, but work hard and everything will go alright.
 
My experience with JAX... At first I thought it was a great place. The longer I was there, the more I realized what it really was.
I would sooner surrender up all my ratings and leave aviation for good and flip burgers at Wendy's than to be stuck in JAX as either a student or instructor. Now with hiring just about dead and the market flooded with high time pilots, and student enrollment way, way down at ATP, you better believe that little "old boys club" is going to be even worse... Especially for instructors.
 
BobDDuck said:
It's amazing that JAX hasn't changed in 5 years.

Sort of like death and taxes I guess.
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yeah man . . .how many generations of instructors have been through there? . . . and they're still acting like jerks.

and Terry, don't let Tillery smack you.
 
terrynabet said:
Ehhh.... No I don't. lol
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You should know as he is the "Best dang pilot in the whole dang world".
The man gets off on people hating his guts, he loves it. I haven't met anyone else on this planet who gets a kick out of that quite like he does.
If it wasn't so sad it would be hilarious.
 
Initially I didn't have too much to do with the JAX location other then flying through on my XCs and going to CFI school there.

Once I started working for them I spent a bit of time at CRG getting my weekly .8 of flying time and prepping for the Rich ride to head out to a location to instruct. I was absolutely blown away by his lack professionalism. I was in there getting something and he had just flown with a guy from my instructor class and was talking about how bad the guy sucked and how he couldn't do anything. The problem was, he was telling it to about 4 instructors, plus two or three students who were hanging around.

And Bill's right. He loves when people fear him. I think it bothers him the most when he gets ignored. When I finally did go up on my Rich ride (the second time as we had to stop the first one due to a MX problem with the plane) I just kept reaching over and unplugging his headset every time he started to get annoying. I couldn't stop laughing about it and he was getting really ticked off and threatening to fail me and have me kicked out and what not.

Good times.

EDIT: Terry, I see nobody actually answered your question. Rich was (and probably still is) the Chief Pilot, back when there was only one and there was no management at any of the locations except for JAX and Frank out in Vegas. His job (in addition to running the Private Pilot Program at CRG) was to give a final checkout ride to every instructor before they headed off to a location to instruct. It was known as the Rich Ride, and he pretty much did his best to make you cry if you showed any sign of weakness. He basically attempted to stress you out to the point where you broke. I understand WHAT he was trying to accomplish (because after that you were cut loose and at 250+ hours were teaching others to fly) but I really disagreed with his methods.
 
BobDDuck said:
Initially I didn't have too much to do with the JAX location other then flying through on my XCs and going to CFI school there.

Once I started working for them I spent a bit of time at CRG getting my weekly .8 of flying time and prepping for the Rich ride to head out to a location to instruct. I was absolutely blown away by his lack professionalism. I was in there getting something and he had just flown with a guy from my instructor class and was talking about how bad the guy sucked and how he couldn't do anything. The problem was, he was telling it to about 4 instructors, plus two or three students who were hanging around.

And Bill's right. He loves when people fear him. I think it bothers him the most when he gets ignored. When I finally did go up on my Rich ride (the second time as we had to stop the first one due to a MX problem with the plane) I just kept reaching over and unplugging his headset every time he started to get annoying. I couldn't stop laughing about it and he was getting really ticked off and threatening to fail me and have me kicked out and what not.

Good times.

EDIT: Terry, I see nobody actually answered your question. Rich was (and probably still is) the Chief Pilot, back when there was only one and there was no management at any of the locations except for JAX and Frank out in Vegas. His job (in addition to running the Private Pilot Program at CRG) was to give a final checkout ride to every instructor before they headed off to a location to instruct. It was known as the Rich Ride, and he pretty much did his best to make you cry if you showed any sign of weakness. He basically attempted to stress you out to the point where you broke. I understand WHAT he was trying to accomplish (because after that you were cut loose and at 250+ hours were teaching others to fly) but I really disagreed with his methods.
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I was in the back seat and witnessed him slapping my flight partner in the forehead, while he was flying . . .
 
I work at Jax, and yes it is a stressful environment at times. But I cant agree with what I have been reading on the posts. I do not for a minute deny anybody had a bad experience. It can happen at any flight school. But I do deny CRG is a bad location. I have personally seen the "White Shirts" go above and beyond to help people who were struggling AND wanted to be helped. Attitude is everything. It seems like all some of the more experienced CFI's do is help those with problems and they seem to do very well at helping.

Rich is honest with people about their flying abilities. This isnt accounting school. People can die. I sympathize for those who get their feelings hurt, but c'mon guys that isnt as bad as balling up an airplane with PAX on board is it?

While BillH would rather flip Wendy's, there isnt another ATP location I would rather be at. I know I have to show up with my A-game and I am a better pilot because of it. Not one person has ever come to CRG, worked hard with a good attitude, had the ability to be safe and been shown the door. Not one that I know of.

True, the DE is at times tough to work with, but if you doubt his genuine concern to help CFI's get better and safer then you really dont know him at all.

I am around people all day long that love the CRG location and would not want to be anywhere else.

Just my two cents.
 
BillH, what "white shirts" do you have a problem with and why? I was with you in standardization, was around while you were in half of your CFI school, and I cant figure out at all what you are talking about. They didnt have time for games, that was true, but they werent cruel, mean and an "old boys club." That is just ridiculous. How can you have an old boys club when only ONE instructor has been there for over a year? Average time is 3-4 months. :confused:

Dont get me wrong, I have no problems with an honest gripe, but I just didnt see it while I was sitting next to you.
 
I'm glad someone from CRG posted something good about ATP at CRG. Thank you eclipse and kleigh for putting your posts in. I'll see you both at CRG October 6th. :)
 
Two posts in favor of CRG ATP how many against? It's kinda funny that two people say good things about that location and the rest say something bad and you take their word for it.
 
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