Fly777bigBIRD
New Member
Is ATP a better program than Flight Safety? I heard it's about the same but ATP lets you fly the Citations
and FS lets you fly the state-of-the-art level-d sims.
ATP good program?
- Thread starter Fly777bigBIRD
- Start date
jonboy34
New Member
You may get done in 90 days at ATP, but at Flightsafety you will have much more options when you finish.
Yes you ride for 1 or 2 hours in a citation at ATP, however, if you finish your CFI at Flightsafety you can do their internship and fly hundreds of hours of their level -D jet simulators, and fly with actual corporate clients, get paid $500/ a week, and really learn about how CRM is used for the benefit of the flight. (you can't achieve this by just instructing) At the end of the internship, this more often than not leads to a job with someone that you flew in the sim with. This program is better than the direct track programs you see at atp and other schools because instead of paying $30,000, you are making $500/wk - a big difference.
Good luck
.
Yes you ride for 1 or 2 hours in a citation at ATP, however, if you finish your CFI at Flightsafety you can do their internship and fly hundreds of hours of their level -D jet simulators, and fly with actual corporate clients, get paid $500/ a week, and really learn about how CRM is used for the benefit of the flight. (you can't achieve this by just instructing) At the end of the internship, this more often than not leads to a job with someone that you flew in the sim with. This program is better than the direct track programs you see at atp and other schools because instead of paying $30,000, you are making $500/wk - a big difference.
Good luck
.
[ QUOTE ]
You may get done in 90 days at ATP
....
if you finish your CFI at Flightsafety you can do their internship and fly hundreds of hours of their level -D jet simulators, and fly with actual corporate clients, get paid $500/ a week, and really learn about how CRM is used for the benefit of the flight.
[/ QUOTE ]
So YOU are the guy in groundschool that says, "Well, at [insert blowhard academy mating call], we did it THIS way."
You're the guy who says, "Yeah, I flew a Falcon 900." Three minutes later, suhMASH buhBANG onto the runway... falling out of ref at 150 HAT... That dude is probably the most hated FO in the airline, incidentally. I got out of the jumpseat after that little debacle and I was only standing 6'1". Ouch.
Man, you're the guy with the crew bag festooned with FlightSafety tags and the shiny Scotty's flight case, which only proves how proffessional [sic] you truely [sic, again] are.
Guess what? You'll be a newhire somewhere, just like a guy or gal who graduated from ATP, DCA, ERAU, EIEIO, and you all are on equal ground. What separates you from each other is your attitude, not flight-school aptitude. The ratio between how many times you open your piehole and the amount of pertinent things coming out of it is carefully screened, even during breaks....
Incidentally, the 135 and 121 ground school indocs I attended were spot-on exactly like ATPs newhire indoc some three-plus years ago; run by a major airline pilot and a perfect example of what "proFessional" means. I was very, very thankful for that experience alone.
Be sure to tell everyone about the Level-D experience, especially if it is an aircraft other than the one you'll be in training for. Better yet, tell them if it IS- they'll be surely impressed by the way you fly the box.
ATP serves the needs of those interested in a GIGO program that are willing to work hard, and want multiengine experience in as short a time as possible. Period. It serves those needs perfectly, and it is run by a set of type-A brilliant folks who are in it for the training of future pilots, not the money; all assets are owned outright, and the money goes straight back into the equipment. It is NOT for everyone, but it certainly isn't comparable to a corporation-driven academy. Apples to stock options.
You may get done in 90 days at ATP
....
if you finish your CFI at Flightsafety you can do their internship and fly hundreds of hours of their level -D jet simulators, and fly with actual corporate clients, get paid $500/ a week, and really learn about how CRM is used for the benefit of the flight.
[/ QUOTE ]
So YOU are the guy in groundschool that says, "Well, at [insert blowhard academy mating call], we did it THIS way."
You're the guy who says, "Yeah, I flew a Falcon 900." Three minutes later, suhMASH buhBANG onto the runway... falling out of ref at 150 HAT... That dude is probably the most hated FO in the airline, incidentally. I got out of the jumpseat after that little debacle and I was only standing 6'1". Ouch.
Man, you're the guy with the crew bag festooned with FlightSafety tags and the shiny Scotty's flight case, which only proves how proffessional [sic] you truely [sic, again] are.
Guess what? You'll be a newhire somewhere, just like a guy or gal who graduated from ATP, DCA, ERAU, EIEIO, and you all are on equal ground. What separates you from each other is your attitude, not flight-school aptitude. The ratio between how many times you open your piehole and the amount of pertinent things coming out of it is carefully screened, even during breaks....
Incidentally, the 135 and 121 ground school indocs I attended were spot-on exactly like ATPs newhire indoc some three-plus years ago; run by a major airline pilot and a perfect example of what "proFessional" means. I was very, very thankful for that experience alone.
Be sure to tell everyone about the Level-D experience, especially if it is an aircraft other than the one you'll be in training for. Better yet, tell them if it IS- they'll be surely impressed by the way you fly the box.
ATP serves the needs of those interested in a GIGO program that are willing to work hard, and want multiengine experience in as short a time as possible. Period. It serves those needs perfectly, and it is run by a set of type-A brilliant folks who are in it for the training of future pilots, not the money; all assets are owned outright, and the money goes straight back into the equipment. It is NOT for everyone, but it certainly isn't comparable to a corporation-driven academy. Apples to stock options.
DE727UPS:
My attitude could have been a little better in my post, but DANG. The best thing I learned at ATP was that I knew two things:
1) Jack squat
2) Don't tell anyone.
Hah! Served me extremely well many times.
Rumor is 400 pilots next year? New plane(s)? I live in OC, MD near Russell H... MD11 fella. Neat, neat guy. I threw boxes in Houston years ago, so I'm crossing the fingers and poking him with a sharp stick and I harass all of the jumpseaters in and out of SDF or MDT.
My attitude could have been a little better in my post, but DANG. The best thing I learned at ATP was that I knew two things:
1) Jack squat
2) Don't tell anyone.
Hah! Served me extremely well many times.
Rumor is 400 pilots next year? New plane(s)? I live in OC, MD near Russell H... MD11 fella. Neat, neat guy. I threw boxes in Houston years ago, so I'm crossing the fingers and poking him with a sharp stick and I harass all of the jumpseaters in and out of SDF or MDT.
Here's to wishin'. Or tuition. But yes, my best friend is at 830 PIC and first on Russell's list of recs; I should be next if I don't foul up. I'm looking at upgrade in June if all goes well (not many of us hired in the past 18 months are anywhere near the 3000TT req, since they hired so many at 500), and hopefully hope beyond hope for a lucky shot about a year after that. We shall see. IN the meantime, I'm just gonna fly along, pass CQ and upgrade, play nice with others, and bug the HELL out of the jumpseat guys and RH.
1035 departure to MDT, and the guy just landed from Paris... going home to snooze before the kids get home from school; and somehow (I forgot) he was still getting paid as he rode in the back of a Dash8. 5yr FO, better than a buck-fifteen, thrilled to death that he just landed a heavy in Philly and will be in his house an hour before lunch and wife-time (of COURSE), nap, and the kids. Not. A. Bad. Gig. Period. Nice enough to drop a card, a few names, and some ideas on getting in. Best part was he was happy. Really, really happy.
Dang! Iffen I could just live on the vineyards in Erie, PA... get to PIT... keep a ragwing at Mooreheadville across the street... oops.
/thread hijack
1035 departure to MDT, and the guy just landed from Paris... going home to snooze before the kids get home from school; and somehow (I forgot) he was still getting paid as he rode in the back of a Dash8. 5yr FO, better than a buck-fifteen, thrilled to death that he just landed a heavy in Philly and will be in his house an hour before lunch and wife-time (of COURSE), nap, and the kids. Not. A. Bad. Gig. Period. Nice enough to drop a card, a few names, and some ideas on getting in. Best part was he was happy. Really, really happy.
Dang! Iffen I could just live on the vineyards in Erie, PA... get to PIT... keep a ragwing at Mooreheadville across the street... oops.
/thread hijack
Fly777bigBIRD
New Member
So you guys think FSI is more better than ATP for job interns?
lol how bout the beautiful citation jets
....what do you guys think of which place is better. Any ATP or FSI students out there?
lol how bout the beautiful citation jets
Sprint100
Well-Known Member
ATP is good program, but I notice you keep mentioning the citation jets. You only fly one for a few hours and it isn't enough for anything really.
Not bashing ATP at all and, will do it myself, because I love their program and scheduling of flights but at least be informed in your decision.
Not bashing ATP at all and, will do it myself, because I love their program and scheduling of flights but at least be informed in your decision.
blee256
Well-Known Member
Yeah, dont worry abouyt the citationjet. Its fun. but dont base your decision on 3 hours in the citation. I can guarantee you, i didnt get hired by the regionals because the 3 hours of turbine I had in my logbook.
I think some will agree, that I would rather have 3000 in my pocket than the 3 hours of citation time included with the ACP program.
ATP and FSI are both great schools. I went to ATP and have no regrets about it. FSI has a great reputation, so thats my basis for saying its a good school and I dont think anyone will disagree with me.
ATP is about 20K cheaper, just on tuition alone. If you add housing which isnt included at FSI you can add an additional 5k or so. So for the sole reason of being cheaper I would choose ATP.
GOod luck.
I think some will agree, that I would rather have 3000 in my pocket than the 3 hours of citation time included with the ACP program.
ATP and FSI are both great schools. I went to ATP and have no regrets about it. FSI has a great reputation, so thats my basis for saying its a good school and I dont think anyone will disagree with me.
ATP is about 20K cheaper, just on tuition alone. If you add housing which isnt included at FSI you can add an additional 5k or so. So for the sole reason of being cheaper I would choose ATP.
GOod luck.
Captain_Bob
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
ATP is good program, but I notice you keep mentioning the citation jets. You only fly one for a few hours and it isn't enough for anything really.
Not bashing ATP at all and, will do it myself, because I love their program and scheduling of flights but at least be informed in your decision.
[/ QUOTE ]
The Citation ride is one ride for 3 hours. They use it to give you your High Altitude and High Performance endorsements. (And to write off the Jet I'm sure...
)
Can't count it as PIC and it's debateable on whether or not it can be SIC. I just counted it as Multi, Turbine, High Perf, Cross Country, and Dual Received.
Fun as hell... but don't go to ATP just for that. Like Sprint said... get informed (on all schools) before making a decision. Regardless of the School Rivalry and Banter here in the forums.
Bob
ATP is good program, but I notice you keep mentioning the citation jets. You only fly one for a few hours and it isn't enough for anything really.
Not bashing ATP at all and, will do it myself, because I love their program and scheduling of flights but at least be informed in your decision.
[/ QUOTE ]
The Citation ride is one ride for 3 hours. They use it to give you your High Altitude and High Performance endorsements. (And to write off the Jet I'm sure...
Can't count it as PIC and it's debateable on whether or not it can be SIC. I just counted it as Multi, Turbine, High Perf, Cross Country, and Dual Received.
Fun as hell... but don't go to ATP just for that. Like Sprint said... get informed (on all schools) before making a decision. Regardless of the School Rivalry and Banter here in the forums.
Bob
Fly777bigBIRD
New Member
So if ATP is cheaper what you guys think of ATP vs FSI?
jonboy34
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
So YOU are the guy in groundschool that says, "Well, at [insert blowhard academy mating call], we did it THIS way
[/ QUOTE ]
so you're the guy with the poor attitude who likes to step on someone trying to send out good honest information for those who read these posts in attempt to actually get some good information about which direction to take. Not intended for the seasoned pilot who is obviously so much better than the rest of us.(not to mention very humorus
[ QUOTE ]
Be sure to tell everyone about the Level-D experience
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you I will when I apply to a job where it can help someone with low time. And now anyone who is trying to decide where to go for their training knows what some of the different options are.
[ QUOTE ]
I did. Never took one CRM class before working at a major. Wonder how I've come this far in aviation
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh ok, my bad. So all that CRM that you learned while teaching your students really paid off...Great, never said it was not possible, but you are missing the point sir... If you read the homepage of this website, you will see that it is a way for those just starting out to get aviation information, which is what i attempt to show everytime i post on here. It is a fact that those with very low time are actually reading these posts to help shape where they will go in the future.
So YOU are the guy in groundschool that says, "Well, at [insert blowhard academy mating call], we did it THIS way
[/ QUOTE ]
so you're the guy with the poor attitude who likes to step on someone trying to send out good honest information for those who read these posts in attempt to actually get some good information about which direction to take. Not intended for the seasoned pilot who is obviously so much better than the rest of us.(not to mention very humorus
Be sure to tell everyone about the Level-D experience
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you I will when I apply to a job where it can help someone with low time. And now anyone who is trying to decide where to go for their training knows what some of the different options are.
[ QUOTE ]
I did. Never took one CRM class before working at a major. Wonder how I've come this far in aviation
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh ok, my bad. So all that CRM that you learned while teaching your students really paid off...Great, never said it was not possible, but you are missing the point sir... If you read the homepage of this website, you will see that it is a way for those just starting out to get aviation information, which is what i attempt to show everytime i post on here. It is a fact that those with very low time are actually reading these posts to help shape where they will go in the future.
Captain_Bob
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
So if ATP is cheaper what you guys think of ATP vs FSI?
[/ QUOTE ] LOL!
Seems like you keep asking the same question looking to get different results.
Seriously... If you've narrowed it down to these two schools... and you're that serious about them, then do this.
- Formulate a list of standard questions to ask both schools, and stick to this script when calling and asking these questions. Write the answers down so that you may go back and review/compare. Leave yourself room for extra info that you learned from the phone interview that you didn't know to ask.
- Place this info, into a spreadsheet with pricing info, training time, multi-time, locations, placing them in priority order, etc...
- Compare those items closely, to help you determine the best route for you.
- Come back to the forums for "Specific" questions regarding any of the items on your comparison sheets that you still have questions about.
I guarantee you will get better results, better answers, and be more informed in your decision. Simply asking "Which is Better... School A or School B?" doesn't quite get you what your looking for in my opinion... of course that's because that is just what you'll get... Opinions... Some are good, some are bad... and some people just like to hear themselves talk (type) in some instances... Heck I'm even guilty of that from time to time.
Find out what is right for you.
Good luck,
Bob
So if ATP is cheaper what you guys think of ATP vs FSI?
[/ QUOTE ] LOL!
Seems like you keep asking the same question looking to get different results.
Seriously... If you've narrowed it down to these two schools... and you're that serious about them, then do this.
- Formulate a list of standard questions to ask both schools, and stick to this script when calling and asking these questions. Write the answers down so that you may go back and review/compare. Leave yourself room for extra info that you learned from the phone interview that you didn't know to ask.
- Place this info, into a spreadsheet with pricing info, training time, multi-time, locations, placing them in priority order, etc...
- Compare those items closely, to help you determine the best route for you.
- Come back to the forums for "Specific" questions regarding any of the items on your comparison sheets that you still have questions about.
I guarantee you will get better results, better answers, and be more informed in your decision. Simply asking "Which is Better... School A or School B?" doesn't quite get you what your looking for in my opinion... of course that's because that is just what you'll get... Opinions... Some are good, some are bad... and some people just like to hear themselves talk (type) in some instances... Heck I'm even guilty of that from time to time.
Find out what is right for you.
Good luck,
Bob
jonboy34:
Easy, tiger.
Each one of those "You're THAT" guys is a living, breathing individual that I sat next to, behind, across the room from, or in the jumpseat of.
They had the gall to
A) attempt to correct a ground instructor ON THAT AIRCRAFT, yes, the same one he's never flown,
B) brag about having 50 hours in the Level C-cough-D sim,
C) lead an IOE (in this case, SOE) instructor on to believe he had Falcon 900 experience,
D) leave a note in the crew room telling us that "you all shuld put crew tags on ur bags to, at least mine are flight safety maybe you can get one, and also have a proffessional flight bag for the truely proffessional pilot."
Outcomes:
A) The most reviled individual (FO) in the company. There are several captains frothing at the mouth to fly with this goon, and he shall have a most miserable career here because of it.
B) Could NOT fly the full motion simulator in training. Blamed it on the machine. Then blamed the company when he beat feet to another airline.
C) Jerked the DA90 gear on three cross-country Pt. 91 flights. Nearly broke the gear on one landing in a DHC8-3; scared the hell outta me. The captain got complacent because the kid talked a GREAT game.
D) Is still considered a flaming moron. Spell much? Gall a little? Once said, "If you didn't go to UND, you have no business here." Tall order at 500 hours, 16 multi.
Each one of them had the same thing in common- they felt compelled to blab about their experience. The first time anybody found out I came from ATP was during my MV checkride in the sim, when the instructor asked how in god's name did my multi time equal to THREE TIMES the last checkride applicant's total time.
Trust me, I learned that lesson the hard way. One lesson; never forgot it.
It's a free lesson to you and anyone else that reads this stuff, but invaluable.
On a side note, to future pilots, Len Morgan said it best, "I got into flying for the machines. I stayed in for the people." Don't ever, EVER be "That guy."
Easy, tiger.
Each one of those "You're THAT" guys is a living, breathing individual that I sat next to, behind, across the room from, or in the jumpseat of.
They had the gall to
A) attempt to correct a ground instructor ON THAT AIRCRAFT, yes, the same one he's never flown,
B) brag about having 50 hours in the Level C-cough-D sim,
C) lead an IOE (in this case, SOE) instructor on to believe he had Falcon 900 experience,
D) leave a note in the crew room telling us that "you all shuld put crew tags on ur bags to, at least mine are flight safety maybe you can get one, and also have a proffessional flight bag for the truely proffessional pilot."
Outcomes:
A) The most reviled individual (FO) in the company. There are several captains frothing at the mouth to fly with this goon, and he shall have a most miserable career here because of it.
B) Could NOT fly the full motion simulator in training. Blamed it on the machine. Then blamed the company when he beat feet to another airline.
C) Jerked the DA90 gear on three cross-country Pt. 91 flights. Nearly broke the gear on one landing in a DHC8-3; scared the hell outta me. The captain got complacent because the kid talked a GREAT game.
D) Is still considered a flaming moron. Spell much? Gall a little? Once said, "If you didn't go to UND, you have no business here." Tall order at 500 hours, 16 multi.
Each one of them had the same thing in common- they felt compelled to blab about their experience. The first time anybody found out I came from ATP was during my MV checkride in the sim, when the instructor asked how in god's name did my multi time equal to THREE TIMES the last checkride applicant's total time.
Trust me, I learned that lesson the hard way. One lesson; never forgot it.
It's a free lesson to you and anyone else that reads this stuff, but invaluable.
On a side note, to future pilots, Len Morgan said it best, "I got into flying for the machines. I stayed in for the people." Don't ever, EVER be "That guy."
GaTechKid
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Is ATP a better program than Flight Safety? I heard it's about the same but ATP lets you fly the Citations
and FS lets you fly the state-of-the-art level-d sims.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you are motivated you'll succeed regardless of which school you choose. Ultimately you're just picking the kind of trip to your destination.
Personally, I wanted to train in complex aircraft while finishing up school so choosing ATP was a no-brainer (although I did consider waiting until graduation and then going to Ari-Ben). To me, the Seminole was a corvette compared to the broken-down 152s I had been flying. ATP offered a fair price for the program so I took them up on it, and I haven't looked back.
Is ATP a better program than Flight Safety? I heard it's about the same but ATP lets you fly the Citations
[/ QUOTE ]
If you are motivated you'll succeed regardless of which school you choose. Ultimately you're just picking the kind of trip to your destination.
Personally, I wanted to train in complex aircraft while finishing up school so choosing ATP was a no-brainer (although I did consider waiting until graduation and then going to Ari-Ben). To me, the Seminole was a corvette compared to the broken-down 152s I had been flying. ATP offered a fair price for the program so I took them up on it, and I haven't looked back.
blee256
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
jonboy34:
D) leave a note in the crew room telling us that "you all shuld put crew tags on ur bags to, at least mine are flight safety maybe you can get one, and also have a proffessional flight bag for the truely proffessional pilot."
[/ QUOTE ]
HA, you gotta be kidding me, that didnt really happen did it?
DHC8-3 = Dash 8s? who are you flying for, piedmont?
jonboy34:
D) leave a note in the crew room telling us that "you all shuld put crew tags on ur bags to, at least mine are flight safety maybe you can get one, and also have a proffessional flight bag for the truely proffessional pilot."
[/ QUOTE ]
HA, you gotta be kidding me, that didnt really happen did it?
DHC8-3 = Dash 8s? who are you flying for, piedmont?
