ATP Final Rule Signed

TFaudree_ERAU said:
I've only spent 20 minutes looking over the big document (so I obviously can't be intimately familiar with it yet) but I don't see where they changed anything for 135 PIC requirements. 135.243 (a)(1) was already in place and keeping him from being PIC in a 10 or more passenger turbine aircraft. That's not something new.
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That's what I meant. If someone doesn't have their ATP they can't have 10 pax or do EOD under 135. That is the same but getting the ATP will be different, and if you don't have it by then.....
 
I found it interesting that 1,000 hours of 135 / 91 k PIC time is equal to 1,000 hours of 121 SIC for the purpose of acting as a 121 PIC as far as the new regs imply, BUT corporate 91 PIC is excluded from the comparason.
 
The Rule makes little sense in my opinion... It does not affect me anyhow as I already am close to actual ATP mins.

However the Bachelors and associates requirement with 141 training is beyond ridiculous. 1000 hrs for BS with 141, and 1250 with AS and 141 training. I have found that most DPE's are legit. I know that current 141 checkrides (Technology age) at one particular 141 aviation university allows their students to use IPAD's on the PPL checkride and Commcerical checkride for diversions. Most pt 61 checkrides including mine would never of allowed such a thing and focused on pilotage and dead reckoning. This is one example of a university developing poor airmanship in the next professional pilots.

I respect the education that universities provide to their students as ground knowledge is crucial like Screaming_Emu said. In no way is this a bash on those schools. But if universities teach their students to solely rely on technology such as GPS, Ipads, etc, I do not believe they will create better pilots.

***EDIT
 
snOOp said:
I know that current 141 checkrides (Technology age) at 141 aviation universities allow their students to use IPAD's on the PPL checkride and Commcerical checkride for diversions. Most pt 61 checkrides including mine would never of allowed such a thing and focused on pilotage and dead reckoning. This is one bad example of universities devolving poor airmanship in the next professional pilots.
...
But if universities teach their students to solely rely on technology such as GPS, Ipads, etc, I do not believe they will create better pilots.
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YGBSM?!?! No wonder people can't seem to fly anymore without all the electronic nannies.
 
snOOp said:
I know that current 141 checkrides (Technology age) at 141 aviation universities allow their students to use iPAD's on the PPL checkride and Commcerical checkride for diversions.
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The 141 university I instruct at doesn't allow this. Basically students aren't really allowed to use their iPads in the cockpit until they have their PPL. As instructors we are always told: Yes the student can use it "all available resources" but they still need to be able to demonstrate how to complete a diversion using pilotage and dead reckoning.
 
Are iPads the new electronic E6-Bs?

Instructor/examiner: "What happens if your batteries go dead mid flight?!"
Student: (reaches into flight bag and pulls out fresh batteries)
 
This is good news for me. I know not everyone sees this as good news, but I'm glad that my education and part 141 flight training count for something.

For the guys joking about Riddle being like the next Gulfstream need to take a step back. It is still a university, and you still have to go through with an education. Also there are a LOT more colleges than Riddle. Anyone ever heard of NIFA? There are 50+ aviation schools that participate in these competitions... It's not show up, throw money, get a degree, and go fly airliners. It is a LOT more than that. I have witnessed countless people wipe out of the aviation university I went to. It is not for the faint at heart... Give us a little more credit.

It will be interesting to see how the universities adjust their program for the new requirements, and what their hook will be to get new students in the door.
 
Rocketman99 said:
YGBSM?!?! No wonder people can't seem to fly anymore without all the electronic nannies.
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Heard this was allowed at one aviation university that is considered a great school, but spitfire5181 cleared it up that it is not allowed at all universities which is nice to know! lol at the YGBSM :bounce:

spitfire5181 said:
The 141 university I instruct at doesn't allow this. Basically students aren't really allowed to use their iPads in the cockpit until they have their PPL. As instructors we are always told: Yes the student can use it "all available resources" but they still need to be able to demonstrate how to complete a diversion using pilotage and dead reckoning.
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Thats refreshing to hear man, a pilot I know told me he was allowed to do so on both his checkrides at a recognized 141 university. Glad to hear yours does not.
 
I'm really not a huge fan of the way this is being portrayed as an improvement, when the industry had been expecting a hard 1,500 time requirement for at least the past year.

This is a reduction in expected requirements, not a real improvement.

Yeah, great, no more 190/250 hr whiz kids, but the exceptions are a reduction from the 1,500 figure expected by many in the industry.

Anyway - it'll help the aviation schools in the recruiting departments. Maybe. Auburn is shutting their aviation pro pilot program down soon, perhaps more will follow. I could support an undergraduate program if it were really the students who benefitted, but most programs I have recently evaluated on an academic level rape the student of their ability to get loan money and then snag those funds to feed the coffers of an otherwise very wealthy university. Although, this can be said of most universities here in the US at present.

Sorry for the sidetrack. I've lost my forum skills during my repeated breaks from here, lol.

And for the guy asking for folks to give those going trough aviation programs more credit. May I suggest you help change the "It's MINE" attitude that is prevalent among your peers before asking the rest of the industry to give you more credit? Be part of the solution, not the problem. Might I also recommend developing a secondary skill for when you're furloughed from the flying gig you spent 60k to 150k on to acquire.
 
snOOp said:
Thats refreshing to hear man, a pilot I know told me he was allowed to do so on both his checkrides at recognized 141 university. Glad to hear yours does not.
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Honestly it surprises me these students have iPads when I can't even afford one o_O . But a lot of it comes down to the instructor as well. I had my first PPL student show me his brand new iPad right when we got to cross-country flight planning. I flat out told him he couldn't use it while he was with me and that I wouldn't give him any instruction on how to use it. I would think a majority of CFIs now didn't have access to iPads in their training, I would think those CFIs discourage iPad use (I personally only really allow iPads for the charts). What scares me are the students now who are using their iPads on a daily basis; they'll most likely teach iPad use in the cockpit when they become CFIs.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
And anyone who thinks book learning has no merit scares me. You can't tell me that studying a subject in depth for 4 years has zero benefit. If it was all about scaring yourself into learning, a flight instructor's only function would be to make sure the airplane comes back whole.

I really don't understand why people in this country seem to be threatened by education.
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IClz5yU.jpg
 
surreal1221 said:
And for the guy asking for folks to give those going trough aviation programs more credit. May I suggest you help change the "It's MINE" attitude that is prevalent among your peers before asking the rest of the industry to give you more credit? Be part of the solution, not the problem. Might I also recommend developing a secondary skill for when you're furloughed from the flying gig you spent 60k to 150k on to acquire.
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For the price of Embry-Riddle, you should really go to Stanford instead. (I would have, but I got into one, and not the other, and decided "choice three"/safety school was a better idea.)
 
Autothrust Blue said:
For the price of Embry-Riddle, you should really go to Stanford instead. (I would have, but I got into one, and not the other, and decided "choice three"/safety school was a better idea.)
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Stanford is, I'm sure, not necessarily an easy place to get into for most undergrad Riddle kids, lol

To be clear, I'm proud to not be associated with an Aviation university.
 
surreal1221 said:
Stanford is, I'm sure, not necessarily an easy place to get into for most undergrad Riddle kids, lol

To be clear, I'm proud to not be associated with an Aviation university.
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You see my point, right?

Given a choice of where I went $large in loan debt, I'd rather not have it for Riddle.

(Disclaimer: went to a state university and bitterly envious of the Stanford campus and programs, etc.)
 
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