ATP Cross Country times

jwp_145

jwp_145

GhostRider in the Sky
Buddy and I sitting here talking about ATP mins... the regs for the ATP cross country still confuse me a bit... I've looked in the far.aim and searched on here. Anyone care to enlighten me?
 
mojo6911 said:
61.1

You may count XC any flight over 50NM. No landing is required for ATP XC.
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So your saying that any flight over 50nm is a cross country. What about a training flight that never really goes anywhere? We fly at least 50nm on every flight would you count that as a cross country? I'm just curious. I know what I think I'm just looking for other opinions.
 
DL31082 said:
So your saying that any flight over 50nm is a cross country. What about a training flight that never really goes anywhere? We fly at least 50nm on every flight would you count that as a cross country? I'm just curious. I know what I think I'm just looking for other opinions.
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For ATP, yes. I think the intent was to allow military pilots who would fly 1000nm missions and never land to be able to log XC time.

(vi) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for an airline transport pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating), time acquired during a flight--
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.
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It is pretty clear a landing is not required.
 
DL31082 said:
I did not think so and I don't log it that way. One of our other instructors does though.
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What would you tell a B-52 or P-3 pilot who spends 13 hours flying a transcontinental mission? Surely you're not going to expect them to quantify that as cross country experience?
 
My understanding is that for an ATP certificate, the requirement is for a flight (not a landing) more than 50NM straight line distance from the point of departure.
 
I heard Dick Rutan talk several years ago at Oshkosh about his flight around the world in the Voyager. I remember him joking about how it wasn't cross-country since he landed at the departure airport. I guess he could count it for an ATP if he ever decided he needed those privileges.
 
esa17 said:
What would you tell a B-52 or P-3 pilot who spends 13 hours flying a transcontinental mission? Surely you're not going to expect them to quantify that as cross country experience?
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That's when the little known subparagraph kicks in:

(u)--except for the purpose of carrying ordnance or conductance of surveillance, or simulation, as determined by the administrator.

BATP (Better Than ATP)
 
DL31082 said:
This is my understanding as well. There is a clear difference between a B-2 bomber going to Iraq and back and a C172 flying circles for 2 hours.
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If you fly your 172 straight line over 50 nm and then return home, while using pilotage and dead reckoning for a means of navigation, you can log cross country time.

Flying in circles does not equal straight line distance.
 
DL31082 said:
So your saying that any flight over 50nm is a cross country. What about a training flight that never really goes anywhere? We fly at least 50nm on every flight would you count that as a cross country?
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You fly at least 50 nm away from your home base on ever training flight? Where the heck are you? We're pretty busy but our practice areas are only 15 miles away.
 
I was told you can log any time spent flying to another airport as "XC time", even if it's inside of 50nm...:confused:

something about the 50nm requirement only pertaining to private pilot applicants?
 
I wouldn't say 'wrong' just misunderstood.

Cross country is any time you navigate the aircraft from one airport to another. For specific airmen certificates there is a distance requirement. However for a 135 designation they only require that it be from one airport to another. Some people choose to log 135 cross country in a separate column of cross country time with a minimum distance of 50 nautical miles.

If you want to get an ATP rating the cross country requirement is minimum 50 nautical miles straight line. This reason is why most people only log cross country when they travel 50 nautical miles straight line. However if you want to apply to a 135 operation they will be interested to know your total 'point to point' cross country time.
 
bLizZuE said:
I wouldn't say 'wrong' just misunderstood.

Cross country is any time you navigate the aircraft from one airport to another. For specific airmen certificates there is a distance requirement. However for a 135 designation they only require that it be from one airport to another. Some people choose to log 135 cross country in a separate column of cross country time with a minimum distance of 50 nautical miles.

If you want to get an ATP rating the cross country requirement is minimum 50 nautical miles straight line. This reason is why most people only log cross country when they travel 50 nautical miles straight line. However if you want to apply to a 135 operation they will be interested to know your total 'point to point' cross country time.
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I just went through my log books and made a note when I was over 500 point to point XC for the 135 stuff with the total at that time, and then only have a column for XC greater than 50 NM. I do include the random flight that may go 50NM straight line distance from my airport in that column with a note in the comments about the distance. This allows me to log some cross country time when shooting approaches and not landing, or when I am doing some VOR tracking for an instrument student. Sometimes in the twin you can get that far with maneuvers, since it moves a little quicker (and we have to exit a Bravo shelf and the DC SFRA to begin with). There are a few of those entries, but not many, because it only counts for ATP cross country time, and most students want to log it as well once you've gotten that far, so we put the plane down somewhere.
 
Holocene said:
I was told you can log any time spent flying to another airport as "XC time", even if it's inside of 50nm...:confused:

something about the 50nm requirement only pertaining to private pilot applicants?
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Thats correct. According to the FARs, the definition of a Cross Country flight is any flight from point A to point B that involved pilotage, dead reckoning, electronic navigation etc...

Thats why in the FARs, when they discuss the aeronautical requirments for the certificates, they specifically state that it must be a straight line distance of at least 50 NM.
 
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