ATP checkride, failed, then passed same night. Career advice.

rockman2343@aol.com

rockman2343@aol.com

Well-Known Member
Although I hve my ATP now, I didn't pass first time, failed on the single engine landing, I went around. That being said I prepared well in advance and my oral went great but after 1 hour of practice, my feeling and comfort for the sim just wasn't quite where I would've liked it, (shocker). That being said at the end of the day it was my fault for not puting the correct inputs during the landing. It was a 121 checkride.
Anyhow, I work for a 121 regional right now, and as most of you know I also have a DUI. So I am debating on moving forward with the airline career or to just go work at my guard base as a jet mechanic full time. So any and all thoughts on continuing in this industry with 1 checkride failure, and a DUI. Thanks.
 
Will you have career satisfaction being a jet mechanic full time? Are you willing to put forth the effort and be turned down a few times? I'd also look into 135 flying. There are some places that are alot more lenient on these things then some of the airlines. No one on here is going to be able to tell you what will make you happy.
 
Good points. No I actually don't like being a mechanic, that being said I can, and it's job stability. That being said, it took almost 2 years of companies saying no (mostly due to not being able to go to canada, not the DUI itself) before someone finally said yes, so I'm pretty resiliant. I just don't want to be unrealistic. Yeah I'd like to go to the majors, but that being said, I'll fly a kite if it pays good.
 
@rockman2343@aol.com

What you have to do is decide what you want to do. If being an airline pilot is what you want to do then keep on going. Do not give up!! Life has a way of giving us hurdles to cross to make us stronger people. You could still make it to a Major airline. Will it be easy? NO not at all. You know one thing people fail to see over and over again? Its not what you know its who you know!! If you own up to your mistakes and network to the highest level possible you can be anywhere you want with enough work! Good luck and keep on going if being a pilot is what your heart wants!
 
Rotor2Wing said:
@rockman2343@aol.com

What you have to do is decide what you want to do. If being an airline pilot is what you want to do then keep on going. Do not give up!! Life has a way of giving us hurdles to cross to make us stronger people. You could still make it to a Major airline. Will it be easy? NO not at all. You know one thing people fail to see over and over again? Its not what you know its who you know!! If you own up to your mistakes and network to the highest level possible you can be anywhere you want with enough work! Good luck and keep on going if being a pilot is what your heart wants!
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I think this is good advice. You will most likely be at Commutair for awhile, which may or may not be a dealbreaker for you. But get some more training events behind you, some TPIC, and a couple of years, I would think you'll be just fine.

That is one thing about these ATP/type rating checkrides now, they are no joke. When I did mine, it was my second type (and I already had my ATP). Everything from the Oral to Checkride(s) (ours was AQP, so multiple checking events) was very thorough. We received excellent training, but it was far more work than my first part 91 type rating at FlightSafety. I don't think this applies to you, but there have been some FOs where I work that treated this like a SIC checkride, and apparently that has not turned out well for them.
 
GypsyPilot said:
I think this is good advice. You will most likely be at Commutair for awhile, which may or may not be a dealbreaker for you. But get some more training events behind you, some TPIC, and a couple of years, I would think you'll be just fine.

That is one thing about these ATP/type rating checkrides now, they are no joke. When I did mine, it was my second type (and I already had my ATP). Everything from the Oral to Checkride(s) (ours was AQP, so multiple checking events) was very thorough. We received excellent training, but it was far more work than my first part 91 type rating at FlightSafety. I don't think this applies to you, but there have been some FOs where I work that treated this like a SIC checkride, and apparently that has not turned out well for them.
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Yeah I like what rotor said. Once I'm done with this FO pay stuff, CommutAir won't be a bad place.
The check ride really was not that hard, and the examiner was real fair. I admit there were the sim ride was not as smooth as I would of liked, there were a few stupid mistakes, (ALT SEL, NAV vs V/LOC mode) that were easily avoidable, that being said I didn't do anything illegal and didn't crash. But I prepared every day for over a month, studying the manuals, emergencies, WX etc, and I'm sure this was reflected in the oral. My opinion is one hour of prep in the sim is not enough for an ATO checkride and looking back I wish I would of insisted on a little more training, especially since the single engine landins were not solid after that 1 hour session. I don't know if 1 hour of ground and 1 hour of sim is standard across the industry, but while yes the failure is my fault for not landing the aircraft correctly, lack of familiarity with the sim was a huge contributing factor.
 
rockman2343@aol.com said:
I didn't pass first time, failed on the single engine landing, I went around.
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Just be careful telling the story like this in a future interview. You can't fail a checkride because you went around. There may very well have been compounding factors that led to the single engine approach and landing being the busted item, but (in general, as long as you aren't on fire or running out of gas) going around shows good judgment.
 
If the company saw fit to still employ you rather than send you packing after the bust, I'd stay put there and build a few thousand hours of incident and bust-free 121 time. Going back out on the street right after that just makes you look like a quitter and I would think would basically kill any career aspirations for any place bigger than a mom and pop operation. Whereas if you stick it out and have a good record of problem free flying after the checkride bust, that looks a lot better.
 
BobDDuck said:
Just be careful telling the story like this in a future interview. You can't fail a checkride because you went around. There may very well have been compounding factors that led to the single engine approach and landing being the busted item, but (in general, as long as you aren't on fire or running out of gas) going around shows good judgment.
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Ya, I was trying to think of what all the ATP pts specifies, but I know on my pic recurrent, going around is certainly not a failure item.
 
z987k said:
Ya, I was trying to think of what all the ATP pts specifies, but I know on my pic recurrent, going around is certainly not a failure item.
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We can train to 100% proficiency during the recurrent but for the ATP ride I was told by the examiner I had to get it right the first time. That being said you guys are right, and may be there were other things because I did not think you could bust if you went around.
Regardless, thanks for all the good advice guys. I'm going to stick it out and just work even harder than I have been.
 
rockman2343@aol.com said:
We can train to 100% proficiency during the recurrent but for the ATP ride I was told by the examiner I had to get it right the first time. That being said you guys are right, and may be there were other things because I did not think you could bust if you went around.
Regardless, thanks for all the good advice guys. I'm going to stick it out and just work even harder than I have been.
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If you are going to spend time in the 121 game you NEED to know what are jeopardy events and what aren't. There is no way in hell you should ever go into a checkride without knowing exactly what the tolerances and expectations are. Take that as the most important lesson from this.
 
BobDDuck said:
If you are going to spend time in the 121 game you NEED to know what are jeopardy events and what aren't. There is no way in hell you should ever go into a checkride without knowing exactly what the tolerances and expectations are. Take that as the most important lesson from this.
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This... you are a professional and should have a professional's level of knowledge when it comes to FAR's, aircraft, training/testing, and FOM as it pertains to your company. That being said congratulations! I've never been one to put a whole lot of stock in the mantra " Oh noes... you failed a checkride? You can't be a good pilot OMGZ!" Thats a load of crap... we all make mistakes in life. Some make more than others.... regardless... keep pushing for perfection, roll up twenty deep in hot chicks when you come to work, live each day like it was your last, and for gosh sake have some fun with this job because that seems to be the only thing mgt can't take away during a BK restructuring.
 
Did you get fired? If not, why not stay?

Since when is a go around a failure item? Sounds like you made a prudent decision in the interest of safety. This kind of boggles my mind. Kind of like the "power out of the stall" mentality that was taught (or is still taught) at the airlines for a while.
 
I think it would be in your best interest to find out exactly what you did wrong to bust the ride (if there's still any ambiguity) so you can truly learn from the mistake. That being said, congrats on the ATP rating and best of luck. :)
 
Thanks everyone for the advice and thoughts. I did not get fired and I am staying with the company as long as the upgrade time stays under 2 years, I won't work longer than that for this pay.

The examiner was quite clear on what item I failed on, and I was only retested on that item. I did all that I could, short of asking for more time to prep in the sim, and I'm not saying this to comfort myself. I studied, memorized and chair flew consistently for over a month. While at the end of the day the failure is my fault for not landing it, having only 1 hour in the sim to prepare was a huge contributing factor. But that might be a whole new topic of discussion.

The good to come out of it is that the things that I thought would be hard (which I put much focus on while studying) weren't, the rest of the mistakes I made were easily correctable, and I think I'm finally getting a feel for the sim. I am confident that I will have no problem having passed two proficiency checks, and possibly upgrade, by this time next year.
 
I agree to stay put where you're at if they didn't let you go.

Only thing that keeps throwing me off is--what do you mean you only had 1 hour in the sim to prepare? Wasn't there a weeks worth of sim sessions to go through? Not trying to sound like a prick, just sounds like you only got to have 1 sim and a checkride. Unless I'm retarded. Which is possible.
 
They busted you for going around? Like, without crashing? Lulz. If there's one things pilots suck at, it's realizing they've screwed up and getting out before it gets worse. Then they penalize you for it? I'll bet even Bob Hoover has gone around, but there are a lot of dead guys who didn't because they didn't want to lose face. There simply must be more to the story?
 
Yes, it was one sim session, covering three new items, and then the checkride.
As far as the bust, "you have to be able to land it the first time". Those were the examiners words.
 
What were the three items? The only maneuver we don't do for the PIC type (as far as I know) is the single engine go around.
 
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