ATP 500hr XC Clarification?

[Muff3n]

Hey guys,

Been a long time since posting here. I tried some searching on this but have had a hard time finding the current and actual answer. I have done all of my training part 61, and now I have finally made the career leap to full time instructing. I did not do any 141 training so I know I am subject to the full 1500TT requirements for the regionals.

I have confusion around the cross country requirements. Will I have to have a full 500 hours of cross country before I can get hired on with the regionals for the ATP requirement? If so, I feel I have potentially made a big mistake with the career change as I don’t see how it’s possible to get 500 XC instructing without accumulating 2500 or 3k total instructing as the cross country training is such a small portion of what we do. Which would take many more years that I had planned.

 

[Jordan93]

It’s reducible to 200 hours XC. You’ll just be issued a restricted ATP until you reach 500 XC then you’ll receive your unrestricted ATP. It’s quite common.

 

[Muff3n]

Hey Jordan! Good to see you around still. I just want to be 100% sure I am not being dense and I can quit worrying.

Even though I am subject to the full 1500 due to a part 61 background, I can still get an R-ATP as respects the cross country time? I guess I had thought it was all or nothing if you didn’t have a 141 background.

 

[Jordan93]

Hey Jordan! Good to see you around still. I just want to be 100% sure I am not being dense and I can quit worrying.

Even though I am subject to the full 1500 due to a part 61 background, I can still get an R-ATP as respects the cross country time? I guess I had thought it was all or nothing if you didn’t have a 141 background.

Correct. You’ll be given an R-ATP based on you not meeting the 500 hours of XC. Once you get your 500 hours XC you can go to the FSDO or try going to your airline to get it removed. Has nothing to do with 141. I did everything part 61 and was issued an R-ATP based on my age. I was 22 when I got hired.

 

[Wardogg]

61.160(f) is what you are looking for.

14 CFR § 61.160 - Aeronautical experience—airplane category restricted privileges.

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[z987k]

Remember ATP cross country while being 50nm away, you don't have to land. So if you go do 2 hours of dual and at some point in that flight manage 50nm from your departure point, you can count the entire flight as x-c for ATP purposes.

 

[chipdumper]

I wonder if you could make a deal with students that if on every flight, when practical, that you would cover the expenses for the time from liftoff to a 50nm point away from the airport. If I was a student I’d totally be up to getting some free learning time. Great way to integrate some hood time toward their IFR too.


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[Jordan93]

I wonder if you could make a deal with students that if on every flight, when practical, that you would cover the expenses for the time from liftoff to a 50nm point away from the airport. If I was a student I’d totally be up to getting some free learning time. Great way to integrate some hood time toward their IFR too.


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Wut? I hope CFIs don’t do this. Free learning time is not a thing. If I’m on the clock, I’m getting paid.

 

[nosehair]

Every flight you make where you land at another airport, regardless of distance is countable as x/c. Going to a nearby airport for some touchngos is x/c. Log it. Count it up.

 

[CFI A&P]

Every flight you make where you land at another airport, regardless of distance is countable as x/c. Going to a nearby airport for some touchngos is x/c. Log it. Count it up.

Tread cautiously with this advice. There are several definitions of cross country, and point to point cross country doesn't help you with ATP minimums unless that point is 50 miles from the departure point, landing not required.

For the future pilots that will find this thread when searching the forum: Unless you qualify for reduced total time ATPs (under a 141 or military program) you'll need 1,500 total time and 500 hours cross country. Plan your flights wisely, factor a 3:1 ratio of total time to cross country if you intend to achieve 1,500TT & 500XC in the most efficient manner. If you're seeking the R-ATP based on reduced cross country time, you'll need 1,500 TT & 200 hours cross country. Or 7.5:1 if seeking the 1500TT & 200XC R-ATP in the most efficient manner.

 

[chipdumper]

Wut? I hope CFIs don’t do this. Free learning time is not a thing. If I’m on the clock, I’m getting paid.

I agree to a point - as long as the CFI doesn’t fraud the student into always making a landing at an airport 50nm away. Because that would happen. They would have to come up with a mutual agreement. Thinking proactively like that toward the goal of hitting the 500hr mark, legally, would accomplish the mission in only 3-4 mos.


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[Jordan93]

I agree to a point - as long as the CFI doesn’t fraud the student into always making a landing at an airport 50nm away. Because that would happen. They would have to come up with a mutual agreement. Thinking proactively like that toward the goal of hitting the 500hr mark, legally, would accomplish the mission in only 3-4 mos.


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You don’t need 500 hours though. The airlines will take you at 200 XC which is very feasible without having to not charge for your services.

 

[milleR]

Every flight you make where you land at another airport, regardless of distance is countable as x/c. Going to a nearby airport for some touchngos is x/c. Log it. Count it up.

That only counts towards part 135 mins, not ATP.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

Every flight you make where you land at another airport, regardless of distance is countable as x/c. Going to a nearby airport for some touchngos is x/c. Log it. Count it up.

Not to qualify for any certificate or rating, including ATP (the subject of the thread). Only FAA pilot privilege a point-to-point cross country counts for is Part 135 minimums.

Hey! Nice to see you! Been a while.

 

[Richman]

Tread cautiously with this advice. There are several definitions of cross country, and point to point cross country doesn't help you with ATP minimums unless that point is 50 miles from the departure point, landing not required.

For the future pilots that will find this thread when searching the forum: Unless you qualify for reduced total time ATPs (under a 141 or military program) you'll need 1,500 total time and 500 hours cross country. Plan your flights wisely, factor a 3:1 ratio of total time to cross country if you intend to achieve 1,500TT & 500XC in the most efficient manner. If you're seeking the R-ATP based on reduced cross country time, you'll need 1,500 TT & 200 hours cross country. Or 7.5:1 if seeking the 1500TT & 200XC R-ATP in the most efficient manner.

The way XC is defined has changed at least 3 times since I started flying, so anything posted will likely change again anyway.

 

[z987k]

I agree to a point - as long as the CFI doesn’t fraud the student into always making a landing at an airport 50nm away. Because that would happen. They would have to come up with a mutual agreement. Thinking proactively like that toward the goal of hitting the 500hr mark, legally, would accomplish the mission in only 3-4 mos.


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You don't need to land for ATP purposes. Just to have the aircraft be 50nm from the airport you took off from.

 

[knot4u]

Is this one of those pesky regulations that get interpreted differently depending on your FSDO?

 

[z987k]

Is this one of those pesky regulations that get interpreted differently depending on your FSDO?

No. It's very black and white spelled out in countless flying articles on the topics and backed up by FAA interpretations. There's been literally no subjectivity to this as long as I've been flying.

Also, FSDOs don't interpret regulations. Following regulation interpretation from FSDOs is like getting legal advice from your dog.

 

[killbilly]

Tread cautiously with this advice. There are several definitions of cross country, and point to point cross country doesn't help you with ATP minimums unless that point is 50 miles from the departure point, landing not required.

For the future pilots that will find this thread when searching the forum: Unless you qualify for reduced total time ATPs (under a 141 or military program) you'll need 1,500 total time and 500 hours cross country. Plan your flights wisely, factor a 3:1 ratio of total time to cross country if you intend to achieve 1,500TT & 500XC in the most efficient manner. If you're seeking the R-ATP based on reduced cross country time, you'll need 1,500 TT & 200 hours cross country. Or 7.5:1 if seeking the 1500TT & 200XC R-ATP in the most efficient manner.

This. 50nm for XC for the ticket.


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[MidlifeFlyer]

The way XC is defined has changed at least 3 times since I started flying, so anything posted will likely change again anyway.

How long is that? The current wording is at least 22 years old and I don't recall it being substantially different for 30 (but I may not have been looking closely).