ATCA opportunities

ProudPilot

Aeronautics Geek
Has anyone here worked for or know how ATCA down in Goodyear, AZ runs the place? I'm thinking about applying, but their website is woefully simple.

How do you like it?
How's the management?
How's the community?
etc?

Thanks!
 

speedbreaker

Well-Known Member
Has anyone here worked for or know how ATCA down in Goodyear, AZ runs the place? I'm thinking about applying, but their website is woefully simple.

How do you like it?
How's the management?
How's the community?
etc?

Thanks!
You'll be paid salary from day one. Standardization is pretty tough but fair, airline orientated 100% including the call out made in the real airline.
A lot of procedures compressed into a SE airplane, but overall a lot of fun.
Full medical, dental, vision and airline privileges after you pass the standardization including a LBA check with a check pilot from Germany.
Management, better then every other school out there, no BS allowed no from their part, neither yours.
10 days holidays, plus vacation after 1 year
Flying all SE BE 33/A, kinda old, but maintained in great shape, MX dep. is there for every single squawk.
Work is 4 days on, 2 days off in two swifts.
Any more info PM me
 

juskl

Well-Known Member
For the love of all that is Holy, please fly a normal pattern for a Bonanza and not that of an Airbus. I just love being behind you guys....... Not......
 

ChristheCFII

Well-Known Member
For the love of all that is Holy, please fly a normal pattern for a Bonanza and not that of an Airbus. I just love being behind you guys....... Not......
Oh, that's how all European schools operate down here. There are a few reasons behind it and the procedure won't change.

I've heard nothing but good things about this place. Their instructor standardization program has a high wash-out rate though. From what I've heard, you'll have two students at a time and work about four hours a day. Not a bad way to make 50k+ a year.
 

speedbreaker

Well-Known Member
For the love of all that is Holy, please fly a normal pattern for a Bonanza and not that of an Airbus. I just love being behind you guys....... Not......
And your definition of a normal pattern should be?
We ussually turn to a 300 ft below TPA altitude to x wind, a 1 1/2 mile of DW and 2 Nm base to acheive a 3 deg GP.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I belive that that's exactly what AFH says?
Maybe I'm wrong, and then I stand corrected.
Just remember that our speed is greater then any other training single.
Cheers
:banghead:
 

ProudPilot

Aeronautics Geek
For a fast aircraft, that's about right. For the rest of us in Cessna and Pipers, we're doing about 90 knots and slower through the whole thing which puts us out a mile at most, but normally within about a 1/2 mile through the whole pattern.

The point of doing a pattern is to do another landing, not to do another pattern. So if you're heading out 1.5 or 2nm while doing 90 knots, that's way too far. Also, most doing patterns will normally come a bit above a 3 degree glideslope then reintercept it with full flaps and maybe a slip. If you're below it, that means you took too much power out too soon or didn't add enough back in during base or final, which could lead to a slow flight situation on final, which isn't ideal for most training.

If it's airline training, then 3 degrees is ideal if you're doing ILS. If it's non-precision, portions may be at 4+ degrees at times. If you're flying Q400's, get used to 6+ degrees, including LDA approaches.
 

juskl

Well-Known Member
Sorry, missed this one for a while... We climb to about 400 agl and turn crosswind, then immediately (after a few seconds) to downwind. Turn base, when needed (usually at about a 45 degree angle from the runway, but we start our decent immediatelly abeam the numbers.. We can do short approaches, turning slips, or whatever to help accomodate the pattern and the others in it. I understand you are teaching people to some day fly airliners, but it is very inconsiderate to the rest of us, which is why you hear tower telling many of the foreign based academy schools to tighten up their patterns, or us trying to get a turn inside of you. We are not doing airbus checklist in the pattern and try to help out the guy behind us, to not extend them out as well. That is what I mean. See the forest through the trees. Heck the King Airs at southwest air charters make tighter patterns.
 

speedbreaker

Well-Known Member
Sorry, missed this one for a while... We climb to about 400 agl and turn crosswind, then immediately (after a few seconds) to downwind. Turn base, when needed (usually at about a 45 degree angle from the runway, but we start our decent immediatelly abeam the numbers.. We can do short approaches, turning slips, or whatever to help accomodate the pattern and the others in it. I understand you are teaching people to some day fly airliners, but it is very inconsiderate to the rest of us, which is why you hear tower telling many of the foreign based academy schools to tighten up their patterns, or us trying to get a turn inside of you. We are not doing airbus checklist in the pattern and try to help out the guy behind us, to not extend them out as well. That is what I mean. See the forest through the trees. Heck the King Airs at southwest air charters make tighter patterns.
So you turn crosswind at aprox 400ft AGL? What happened with "
5. If remaining in the traffic pattern, commence turn to crosswind leg beyond the departure end of the runway within 300 feet of pattern altitude". chapter 13 Airport operations http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/pilot_handbook/media/PHAK - Chapter 13.pdf
I belive the problems it is NOT doing checklist Airbus in the pattern , but something else.
Everything that you wrote 'trying to help...we do the same . See the forrest ...hum ;you think?
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
So you turn crosswind at aprox 400ft AGL? What happened with "
5. If remaining in the traffic pattern, commence turn to crosswind leg beyond the departure end of the runway within 300 feet of pattern altitude". chapter 13 Airport operations http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/pilot_handbook/media/PHAK - Chapter 13.pdf
For us, IFR departures we can't make any turns until 400 AGL, but thats the AF. I guess (5) is for the rectangular pattern. Oh well, apples and oranges with me.

My real questions are (for my own morbid curiousity):

1. does ATCA still have their T-34s?
2. is the airport at Mobile going to be expanded beyond a training field for ATCA?
3. does ATCA have anything to do with ATTI at Ryan, or completely separate?

Thanks!
 

speedbreaker

Well-Known Member
For us, IFR departures we can't make any turns until 400 AGL, but thats the AF. I guess (5) is for the rectangular pattern. Oh well, apples and oranges with me.

My real questions are (for my own morbid curiousity):

1. does ATCA still have their T-34s?
2. is the airport at Mobile going to be expanded beyond a training field for ATCA?
3. does ATCA have anything to do with ATTI at Ryan, or completely separate?

Thanks!
Yeah, the discussion was for VFR flights, TP in particular. We turn to 400 ft agl for IF flights also.

1. No T-34 here just BE-33/A
2.Mobile to expand I do not belive so for the next 10 years or so
3. Nothing to do with ATTI, we are owned by Lufthansa Airlines, hence we train pilots only for their needs.

Cheers mate,
 

juskl

Well-Known Member
Just curious, Chapter 13 of what? Not to mention it says "within 300 of pattern altitude", not "at 300 below pattern altitude". Also the publication you linked says to turn final at least 1/4 mile from the runway. Yes you can be further, but again, have respect for the rest of the pilots out here. If no one is in the pattern, great, knock yourselves out. But when there are five or more here, the world is not your oyster, and keep it tight.

By the way, we have had numerous pilots from your company come to us for various training. They have informed us of your policies. Which are fine, they just don't jive with what most of us are doing out here.

And yes, see the forest brother. There is more to flying then just following the memorized checklist. Change up your skills to deal with whatever given situation presents it's self.
 

speedbreaker

Well-Known Member
Just curious, Chapter 13 of what? Not to mention it says "within 300 of pattern altitude", not "at 300 below pattern altitude". Also the publication you linked says to turn final at least 1/4 mile from the runway. Yes you can be further, but again, have respect for the rest of the pilots out here. If no one is in the pattern, great, knock yourselves out. But when there are five or more here, the world is not your oyster, and keep it tight.

By the way, we have had numerous pilots from your company come to us for various training. They have informed us of your policies. Which are fine, they just don't jive with what most of us are doing out here.

And yes, see the forest brother. There is more to flying then just following the memorized checklist. Change up your skills to deal with whatever given situation presents it's self.
If you do not recognize the publication that I was reffering to, then this discussion has no ground. Looks like you like to just be feisty and accuse other schools.
300 ft below or whithin is still what that publication says, and no matter how you put it , do not come to 400 ft agl as you posted.
i was trying merrely to explain about why does it looks a "large" pattern to you. Again i do not want to start a war here but, think about the differences in speed between what wefly and what you fly.
Turning base at least 1/4 of a mile, for your info we turn base 30 sec after passing the threshold which puts us at 0.79NM, again think about differences in speed.
Pilots from our company comming to you for various training, allow me to DO not belive that. All our IP are required to have CFIA, CFII and MEI at the date of hire; maybe the one comming to you where the washouts( yes our standardization dep. if kinda tough)
My whole post until now was, to try to show you that even we fly for Lufthansa, we still respect all US laws and airspace, and instill the same in our students.
Regarding the forrest, I humbly suggest that you look to the little pin in yours.
I do not belive that I need to change my skills to deal...If "numerous pilots " from our company train to you, maybe they also informed you about the flight times that our instructors have in a very diverse enviroment , not limited to flight instructing only.
Maybe in your windom you can let us know what airport we are talking about, we will analize the situation and make the necessary corrections to our policies. I can not guarante that will please you or a specific group , but rest assured they will comply with all local, goverment and federal regulations. Can youdo the same at your company?

Cheers.
 

juskl

Well-Known Member
Absolutely I can state that the company that I work for is Chandler Air Service and what your people (students) come to us for is their tailwheel endorsements and some aerobatics. Not that they have left your program, or have talked badly about you..... They have not. They have all been very good pilots (to your and their credit). They have told us about the timed to base rule. We do not agree, but whatever. There are also many whom fly the bo into Chandler and fly a tighter pattern (again we shall agree to disagree).

As the average age of our pilots here is late thirties and up (instructors) and come from varried backgrounds, I would suffice it to say that we are all quite experienced as well. Especially in the flight training environment. We are not kids.

We are teaching people to fly general aviation, not the airlines. That is our difference. We are here to assist our fellow aviators in anyway we can, and that means thinking of others when we fly. All I am saying is, again, be considerate of others.

Oh yeah and for the record, you were never accused of breaking any State, Federal, local or FAA rules or laws. Your school is just known for making large patterns, which annoys the heck out of us and other pilots. But oh well, I guess if you all don't care... Then you don't care.... Oh yeah, and cheers right back at ya..
 
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