tripleseven
Well-Known Member
I was just wondering why the LA area has SOCAL departure/arrival instead of separate dept./arr. controllers for each airport. Are there any other cities that do that?
ATC communications
- Thread starter tripleseven
- Start date
I_Money
Moderator
I think you are confusing something. Socal is much like any other area, it is all sectioned up and your speak to the control in that area regardless of if you are coming or going. Are you confusing it by its name 'Socal approach'? As you will call Socall Approach, Socal Approach even if you are departing.
drumminpilot
Well-Known Member
We have an arrival/departure control serving a mass of airports here. It's called Razorback approach/departure, and it pretty much covers all of the NW corner of Arkansas, plus some. They control from the ground to 15,000 where Center takes over.
Iain,
Didnt the creation of one large "Socal Approach" solve the problem of all the individual approach contorllers? My ATC histroy is really minimal. Kinda like up here in northern Cali they combined a bunch of approaches into "Sierra Approach". Yes, you still get lots of folks covering lots of sectors... but its known as one approach 'agency', for lack of a better term.
I'd like to learn more about this....
Didnt the creation of one large "Socal Approach" solve the problem of all the individual approach contorllers? My ATC histroy is really minimal. Kinda like up here in northern Cali they combined a bunch of approaches into "Sierra Approach". Yes, you still get lots of folks covering lots of sectors... but its known as one approach 'agency', for lack of a better term.
I'd like to learn more about this....
CaliforniaSurfer
Well-Known Member
bluelake,
Sierra Approach as it is now known used to be Bay Approach, right?
Surf
Sierra Approach as it is now known used to be Bay Approach, right?
Surf
chrisdahut1
Well-Known Member
We have the same thing here in FL. Miami Approach/Departure handles the sequencing for all aircraft going into MIA and FLL. Most likeley have this setup to centralize all the air traffic control, but couldn't say for sure.
FreeWillie
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
bluelake,
Sierra Approach as it is now known used to be Bay Approach, right?
Surf
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually if they haven't already switched over, any day now they will be going by yet another name "Norcal Approach".
bluelake,
Sierra Approach as it is now known used to be Bay Approach, right?
Surf
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually if they haven't already switched over, any day now they will be going by yet another name "Norcal Approach".
Cheechako
Well-Known Member
They've centrally located all the controllers for an area. Where there used to be ATC facilities scattered about Southern California (Burbank, LAX, Ontario, Coast (LGB/SNA), and San Diego), they're all in one facility down by Miramar in San Diego. "Sierra" is the same up in the Bay Area. San Jose, SFO, Oakland, and I think even Sacramento are included. Not too sure where the actual building is located.
I think it's an effort for efficiency. Have one facility to maintain and upgrade.
I think it's an effort for efficiency. Have one facility to maintain and upgrade.
jdflight
Well-Known Member
Two responses here. First, this happens in many places. Centrally located controllers are better able to handle transitioning aircraft between sectors, particularly in busy airspace such as Bravo. Though I'm not sure, I would venture most Bravo areas are similar to this, with the major approach control just handing off to the various underlying towers or overlying centers as necessary.
Second, Sierra Approach, Surf, was created in December out of Sacramento, Bay, and Stockton approach controls. Because of the coastal range, though, I would guess there is more than one location; at least one in the valley and one in the Bay.
Second, Sierra Approach, Surf, was created in December out of Sacramento, Bay, and Stockton approach controls. Because of the coastal range, though, I would guess there is more than one location; at least one in the valley and one in the Bay.
zombie5225
New Member
We are getting a similar setup in the DC area. It is going from the three seperate approach controllers to one central Potomac Approach.
tripleseven
Well-Known Member
Iain....oh I didnt even see that I made that mistake. Ya....I did mean SOCAL approach
[ QUOTE ]
Iain,
Didnt the creation of one large "Socal Approach" solve the problem of all the individual approach contorllers? My ATC histroy is really minimal. Kinda like up here in northern Cali they combined a bunch of approaches into "Sierra Approach". Yes, you still get lots of folks covering lots of sectors... but its known as one approach 'agency', for lack of a better term.
I'd like to learn more about this....
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, you used to have Coast Approach, etc out in that area, and they combined them (streamlined them) in the mid-1990s.
MD
Iain,
Didnt the creation of one large "Socal Approach" solve the problem of all the individual approach contorllers? My ATC histroy is really minimal. Kinda like up here in northern Cali they combined a bunch of approaches into "Sierra Approach". Yes, you still get lots of folks covering lots of sectors... but its known as one approach 'agency', for lack of a better term.
I'd like to learn more about this....
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, you used to have Coast Approach, etc out in that area, and they combined them (streamlined them) in the mid-1990s.
MD
davetheflyer
New Member
Washington DC has a similar setup. Washington National, Dulles, Richmond and Baltimore are being comined into a single Potomac Tracon. Dulles controllers became Potomac in December and Richmond was assimilated like a victim of the Borg just last week. Baltimore, you're next. Bwahahahaah.
Seriously, I think that it is supposed to save money by reducing the duplication of facilities and services.
Seriously, I think that it is supposed to save money by reducing the duplication of facilities and services.
Hey everyone,
Just to add to the forum, Sierra also combined the Monterey TRACON into their facility, which is located at the Mather AFB. In addition, portions of Oakland Center's airspace are going to be given to Sierra to control the areas surrounding Napa, Santa Rosa, etc., but Travis RAPCON is going to stay. There are even talks of forming a Central California TRACON, basically combining Fresno, Bakersfield, Santa Barbara, etc. TRACONS into one facility.
The way the combined TRACONS work is like this: The TRACON is split up into different areas, each area handling a different section of airspace (e.g. In Sierra, Area A controls mostly Monterey airspace, as well as SJC final and SJC departure, Area B handles mostly SFO arrivals, Area C is mostly the Stockton Area, as well as Oakland final, Area D is Oakland and SFO departures, and will be given the sections of Oakland Center airspace, Area E is Sacramento airspace, and Area F is the ETG or "training lab"). Each area is then broken down into numerous sectors, with one controller at each sector (this is how it works in the Centers as well). In a nutshell, each sector makes up an area, and each area makes up the total airspace of the TRACON. Hope this helps!
Just to add to the forum, Sierra also combined the Monterey TRACON into their facility, which is located at the Mather AFB. In addition, portions of Oakland Center's airspace are going to be given to Sierra to control the areas surrounding Napa, Santa Rosa, etc., but Travis RAPCON is going to stay. There are even talks of forming a Central California TRACON, basically combining Fresno, Bakersfield, Santa Barbara, etc. TRACONS into one facility.
The way the combined TRACONS work is like this: The TRACON is split up into different areas, each area handling a different section of airspace (e.g. In Sierra, Area A controls mostly Monterey airspace, as well as SJC final and SJC departure, Area B handles mostly SFO arrivals, Area C is mostly the Stockton Area, as well as Oakland final, Area D is Oakland and SFO departures, and will be given the sections of Oakland Center airspace, Area E is Sacramento airspace, and Area F is the ETG or "training lab"). Each area is then broken down into numerous sectors, with one controller at each sector (this is how it works in the Centers as well). In a nutshell, each sector makes up an area, and each area makes up the total airspace of the TRACON. Hope this helps!
drumminpilot
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Do they answer to SUUUEEEEYYY!? SuuuuEEEY ATC this is Cessna Nxxxx requesting the Redneck NDB for 17....currently holding over hokeytonk.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, it's funny that you mention that. Let me preface this by saying that Tyson Foods is based here, and Springdale's airport is on the edge of the city. A lot of Tyson's chicken growers live outside the city on that side, so it smells like chicken • around the chicken houses that way. When I first started my IFR training here, the instructor I had at the time had been flying around "these here parts" for a little over 25+ years. Anywho, first approach I've ever shot, ILS 18 into ASG. We get handed to tower, and my instructor calls tower (the guy in the tower had been working at ASG for 15+ years) and requests a change from the ILS 18 to the "Chicken One" approach. I'm not kidding. As I give her a "what the hell?" look, she gets a smirk on her face. The guy in tower promptly comes back with the clearance I'll never forget. "Cessna 02U, your approach clearance has been changed as requested. You are cleared for the 'Chicken One approach' into Springdale. Report leaving 'the smell' inbound." My instructor busts out laughing, and repeats the clearance to the tower. She then enlightens me, that the 'chicken one' approach, is where you fly over Springdale with the window open ,and when you smell chicken •, you descend.
Gotta love those rare slow days around here!!!
Good Arkie jokes though!! But, you forgot the one about if a couple gets a divorce in Arkansas, are they still brother and sister?
It's funny that whenever I was in FL last year, or Los Angeles a couple of years ago, everybody was surprised that a) I wore shoes b) I bathe and c) I don't have an accent. I lucked out though, there's pretty much two places to live in Arkanslaw that're okay. That's in NW Arkansas (where I'm from) or Little Rock. The difference between here and L.R., is that you won't get shot here. Outside of those two areas, the movie Deliverance is pretty much right on the money.
Do they answer to SUUUEEEEYYY!? SuuuuEEEY ATC this is Cessna Nxxxx requesting the Redneck NDB for 17....currently holding over hokeytonk.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, it's funny that you mention that. Let me preface this by saying that Tyson Foods is based here, and Springdale's airport is on the edge of the city. A lot of Tyson's chicken growers live outside the city on that side, so it smells like chicken • around the chicken houses that way. When I first started my IFR training here, the instructor I had at the time had been flying around "these here parts" for a little over 25+ years. Anywho, first approach I've ever shot, ILS 18 into ASG. We get handed to tower, and my instructor calls tower (the guy in the tower had been working at ASG for 15+ years) and requests a change from the ILS 18 to the "Chicken One" approach. I'm not kidding. As I give her a "what the hell?" look, she gets a smirk on her face. The guy in tower promptly comes back with the clearance I'll never forget. "Cessna 02U, your approach clearance has been changed as requested. You are cleared for the 'Chicken One approach' into Springdale. Report leaving 'the smell' inbound." My instructor busts out laughing, and repeats the clearance to the tower. She then enlightens me, that the 'chicken one' approach, is where you fly over Springdale with the window open ,and when you smell chicken •, you descend.
Good Arkie jokes though!! But, you forgot the one about if a couple gets a divorce in Arkansas, are they still brother and sister?
It's funny that whenever I was in FL last year, or Los Angeles a couple of years ago, everybody was surprised that a) I wore shoes b) I bathe and c) I don't have an accent. I lucked out though, there's pretty much two places to live in Arkanslaw that're okay. That's in NW Arkansas (where I'm from) or Little Rock. The difference between here and L.R., is that you won't get shot here. Outside of those two areas, the movie Deliverance is pretty much right on the money.