ATA victims

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Oh, I know!

But I betchya there's a few million dollars in defaulted loans from former ATA and Tab students that wished they did though, ya think?
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For sure.

But let me ask you a question: Before TAB got the idea to start the airline, wasn't it a normal flight school operation, but just doing all their training in King Airs? It really wasn't a PFT before that was it?
 
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But let me ask you a question: Before TAB got the idea to start the airline, wasn't it a normal flight school operation, but just doing all their training in King Airs? It really wasn't a PFT before that was it?

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Yes and no. It was a horribly expensive training program, one that culminated in you having your Commercial MEL Inst. and something around 250-300 hours I wanna say.

If students ELECTED to, they could interview and, if successful, train at Colgan. However, COLGAN required a "training deposit" somewhere around $18k.

As far as I know, TAB didn't get it, that $$ went to Colgan. However, I'm not totally sure on that fact.

TAB said wtf, mate? Let's start our own airline and make these guys pay US instead of colgan. And so the story begins...

~wheelsup
 
What I don't understand about Tab guys is that yes someone could be naive about the industry and suckered in initially, but once you got there wouldn't you have questions and red flags raised about this supposed "airline" that you were going to eventually be working for that never (to my knowledge at least) went operational?
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Maybe "tabexpressvictim" can enlighten us on his or any other students' suspicions or even if they had any.
 
From AOPA e-Pilot


FLORIDA FLIGHT SCHOOL UNDER INVESTIGATION
The Florida Attorney General's office has confirmed that it is investigating the TAB Express International flight school in Deland, Florida, which closed suddenly in mid-June, stranding students. A spokeswoman for Attorney General Charlie Christ said 40 to 50 students from as far away as Japan lost up to $100,000 each, although newspaper accounts say 80 students were affected. Students were required to pay all the funds at the beginning of their training. The Orlando Sentinel reported the school used the Ohio-based Key Bank to make loans to the students. When the bank cut off loan funds, the school's key source of funding was lost, the newspaper said. "The flight school said it had an airline and that if students flew for it for two years their loans would be repaid, but they didn't have an airline," said the spokeswoman for the attorney general. Highway billboards and signs on public buses indicate that TAB Express operates flights from Daytona Beach. However, an airport official in Daytona Beach said that while the company rents ticket-counter space with the words "TAB Express" on a sign, it never operated flights from there.

Never flew a flight...
 
ESF, you're a jackass! Did you ever think maybe the guy didn't do his research, didn't learn early on, what PFT is or what people think about it? I suppose everyone in life who get's dooped should be shunned and made to feel like they deserved it. So if an old lady gets caught in a scam and looses her life savings, you would probably treat her the same way.

Understand that not everyone is informed, if they were, they wouldn't pop up on sites like these to ask questions about it (I was one of them that thought Gulfstream was the answer). But thanks to people who put their crap aside and gave me advice in a proffessional manner, I stayed out of that.

"If someone came on here saying that they were going to Tab Express to be an "airline pilot," and proud of it, they would get blasted by the masses."

...probably, but this guy isn't. Here's here to see if anyone has empathy, maybe didn't do their research and got screwed also.

Perhaps he would have found advice on what to do, how to recuperate his will and finish his career. Now he'll probably walk away , with a •ty image of us.

Welcome to our site Tabexpressvictim.
 
Eh...It may have no been a revenue flight, but I have heard them on Miami Center coming back from Nassau numerous times.

It was "TAB232".

But yes, a skanky operation to say the least.
 
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ESF, you're a jackass! Did you ever think maybe the guy didn't do his research, didn't learn early on, what PFT is or what people think about it?

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How is ESF being a jackass? He is just keeping it real. If someone doesn't take enough time to the research, and gets screwed afterwards, then that's their own fault.

We should help this guy and not flame him. But if people just go out there, screw themselves and the whole industry with PFT, then why should one have any sympathy for them?

I am SURE that soon enough we will be seeing the same thing happen for GIA and you'll see a bunch of people as victims. It's nobody's but their own fault. People just learn when they get screwed.
 
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ESF, you're a jackass! Did you ever think maybe the guy didn't do his research, didn't learn early on, what PFT is or what people think about it?

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How is ESF being a jackass? He is just keeping it real. If someone doesn't take enough time to the research, and gets screwed afterwards, then that's their own fault.

We should help this guy and not flame him. But if people just go out there, screw themselves and the whole industry with PFT, then why should one have any sympathy for them?

I am SURE that soon enough we will be seeing the same thing happen for GIA and you'll see a bunch of people as victims. It's nobody's but their own fault. People just learn when they get screwed.

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Looking at both sides of the argument here, I have to say that while I'm sorry to hear someone got ripped off, there is two sides to the fault. Sure, TAB did what it did and took hs money, which I agree is wrong. So far as the "old lady" example a few posts above and the "$25K for Merlin time in San Juan", doesn't anyone believe in the adage of "if it sounds too good to be true, it likely isn't, or is a scam?" Don't we believe in the concepts of doing a little homework, or using a little common sense? I'm not bagging on the guy, and I do hope he's able to sock it to TAB and get his return on his investment, but the anyone remotely involved in aviation, unless they spend only their time at places like TAB and only interact with TAB personnel, would at least hear about the concept of PFT; by this name or some other. It's hard to believe they wouldn't.

Like I said, I really hope there is recourse for TABexpress victim. But alos hope there's a hard lesson learned.
 
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How is ESF being a jackass? He is just keeping it real. If someone doesn't take enough time to the research, and gets screwed afterwards, then that's their own fault.


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Some people aren't as smart as you guys LOL
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Bottom line is this. No one who knows anything or has any kind of life experience should pay up front for anything in full. Would you pay a contractor for a house before he dug the footings. These people were spending enough to buy a house and nobody would ever think of spending that kind of money without a lot of research (don't you do a home inspection and pest inspection on a home before you sign). If these people had just been sophisticated enough to make sure the loans were done so the money went into escrow and needed the student's signature to be released to the school they would have their money and be able to go elsewhere. I believe the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the students and their parents (for the younger ones). Tony and Bob may have been selling a pipe dream but the students were more than willing to buy into it mostly because they wanted a shortcut. You don't need to know these forums to smell a scam. They advertised this "airline" for two years and never flew a flight.

You can take a hundred thousand dollars to a FBO and come away with a thousand hours TT and 300 multi and get your own job. The education needs to be to the would be students, they need to understand that they don't need a direct track program to get a good job. What they need is a good experienced instructor, a good attitude, a little patience, and the minimums. The academies are so good at taking these students money because they all seem to have shiny jet syndrome and think that a regional job is the only way to an airline career.
 
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If these people had just been sophisticated enough

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Key phrase partner
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Rebuttal.......DENIED
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I think that anyone with a little common sense, should have known that the whole thing was a scam.
I remember the first time that I saw the as on AOPA's flight training magazine. It smelled fishy. I didn't know about PFT>PFJ schemes yet. When I visited the website and saw that they weren't really flying anywhere yet, I thought "mmmm, something it's not right here". But what really gave them away
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, was the pictures of the tail art "save Florida's whales' " love the children" and the cheesy slogan " proud to be Florida's own" that made me realize that the whole thing was an evil setup.
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If you do any research, or buy any books about becoming a professional pilot, they all tell you the same thing.....

NEVER PAY IN FULL!

Always pay as you go. It is one thing to keep several thousand dollars in an account if you get a preferred 'time builder' rate or something similar, but no legitimate school will ask for everything up front. If they do, they do not have their customers best interest in mind and are probably in financial trouble.

So, do I feel sorry for anyone that went to TAB? No, not really. It sucks and those involved should be punished, but anyone who did any research at all should have seen it coming.
 
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I think that anyone with a little common sense, should have known that the whole thing was a scam.


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This really doesn't fall into the general "common sense" area. May be common sense to you or to me, but believe me some people have no clue. Call it street smarts or ghetto knowledge to smell a scam, but if you get someone anxious enough to do something easy and all they have to do is plop the money down most will do it.
Just like those spur of the moment shoppers/buyers, all they see is what they want, they find a way to get it(the money that is) and think they are set.
Like I said before, some people have to learn their lesson the hard way or get that common sense the hard way
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P.S. - The only reason I feel for their plight is because they learned a basic lesson in financial management the hard way, the $100,000 way!!!!!!!
 
Well, first of all, I am not going to argue on the finer points of PFT. I went to tab mainly because I wanted the tuition reimbursement. When I checked them out with the FAA, they had recieved their 135 ticket and proving flights were being conducted. I though the airline was going to be up and running very shortly after I started. Right before I started, 3 students went and got their SIC type in the 1900. Now, it may not be the most favorable way to get a career going, but other careers have similiar programs. Medical doctors can get Med school paid for if you agree to work rural medicine. This is what my brother did. He is now in the great state of Mississippi, in an area that only has running water during daylight hours. (well that's his story).
About the tab232, that sounds like a training flight. Or it could have been one of the proving runs in the 1900. I do know that part of our training was to fly a king air like a multicrew operation and with a "callsign" tab blah blah blah.

All I wanted from this forum, was NOT to discuss PFT, but ask former ATA people, how they handled the sudden closing of their school. I cannot go into details but yes an investigation is being done by the state AG and other legal recourses are being considered. That is all I am asking, if a former student of ATA can help me.. THANK YOU.
 
Some people have no time to go surfing around the internet all F'ing day like some of us do. You all seem to think everybody is on the "net" these days. Sorry to bust your bubble guys, but many people revert back to the "good ol days" and go the book/magazine route. You think the magazines are telling people to stay away from PFT? Hell no, they want the advertising money. Im sick of seeing people act rude and jump on the "you are a dumb ass if you went PFT route", when the same person saying it probably would have gotten their ass taken from them if they were not lucky enough to stumble across this or a similar website.
 
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