At a decision point in the career

Tell your captain no. That is why you are there as an FO. To make sure your captain has a good extra dose of judgement in the airplane. The captain says "ehhh, we can make it in, no problem." You are there to say "no."

Since when does the FO get the final say?

If you're going to be employing those tactics with your captains, I recommend the following:

1) You had better be 100% right.
2) You better not be on probation.
3) You better have a supplemental source of income.
 
You're right! Skywest said the same thing.

Cherry does have a good rep for doing so... Either way my goal isn't Southwest airlines. I'd like to fly for Qatar Airlines, and I need 500 hours of jet time so.... after my one year contract, that's that.

Will they give you a 1 year guarantee that they won't furlough you? Cherry just fired most of their FO's about 2-3 months ago.
 
Tell your captain no. That is why you are there as an FO. To make sure your captain has a good extra dose of judgement in the airplane. The captain says "ehhh, we can make it in, no problem." You are there to say "no." If you're the Captain, then perfect refer to above bolded item.

Since when does the FO get the final say?

If you're going to be employing those tactics with your captains, I recommend the following:

1) You had better be 100% right.
2) You better not be on probation.
3) You better have a supplemental source of income.

I'm gonna vote for germb747 on this one.

I've been in both seats, low time and high(er) time. I've been involved in the training/checking process from the giving and receiving end.

For all my experiences, yes, as an FO you have a significant input into the CRM modeled decision making process. Varying levels of prior aviation experience also are considered as a right-seater makes inputs. However, to think you "give the captain an extra-dose of good judgement", I hope is a improperly spoken thought. A Captain should already have an extra dose of good judgement.

One thing I've learned, is that no matter what I think of the Captain, there is a reason they're still around, as macbre as the thought might be. It's usually because they know not to get in above their heads. Crews historically arise to the occasion when thrown into dire occasions outside of their control. The recent Kalitta accident is a great example. They lost 2 engines right after takeoff, at night, in the mountains, in Columbia. The hull was lost, but the crew made it off the machine (I'm not entirely sure of the condition of the FE - I'm pulling for him though).

Have I caught mistakes a Captain has made when I was an F/O? Sure. I've had more of my mistakes caught when I was in the right seat than I caught though.

Did I have F/O's save my bacon when I was the Captain. You bet. They had cold beer too. Was I an unsafe Captain? I really like to think not.

In any event, everyone's goal is to fly safe and make sure you get home at the end of the day. Everyone realizes that mistakes can be fatal in this job, and unfortunately some have suffered the consequences of bad judgement. It can happen to anyone, which is the reason we have training progams at all levels of aviation to mitigate these types of error chains.....

Just $5.00 of my $.02....
 
I've never really had the pleasure of flying right seat for money. That said, I hope I'd have the humility to do my job and let the PIC do his. Obviously you're there to challenge bad decisions and use CRM to improve outcomes. But to go in to it with the attitude that your job is to "keep the Captain safe" smacks of not recognizing that there's a hierarchy to these things for a reason. Now I know I'm going to get all kinds of flack over having an "old school" mentality. Thing is, I don't, or don't think I do. There are plenty of nights I wish I'd had another guy there, and not just to help me raise the gear or tune the ATIS, but also for decision making. That said, if there had been another guy there, I asked his opinion, disagreed with it, did what I thought was wise, and no laws were broken, the system functioned as it was meant to.
 
Will they give you a 1 year guarantee that they won't furlough you? Cherry just fired most of their FO's about 2-3 months ago.

Nope.

From what I understand 3 were let go because of business drying up. They're getting pretty busy so things look OK for now.

Knowing my luck I'll get my type and lose my job again:banghead:
 
<shrugs>

I've had tens of thousands of dollars in training paid for by employers and not one of them asked me to sign a contract.

That's why I would never sign one.

I've never had to, so what would make one employer so different than the others that I had to?

If they're worried about me leaving, then how about doing this? How about making the working conditions such that I WANT TO STAY instead of counting the days down until I get to whatever milestone they set?

That's what one of the HR directors of one company said in an interview with a local newspaper. We give them these benefits because it makes them want to stay with us and that means we pay less in the long run.

And thats great! But, I think getting a type rating is a little different because you can take that anywhere. Im not sure the type of training you received, but Im sure it wouldnt be as easy for you to find a job in your field as it would be to take a type rating to a better job.

If I ran the company, I would definitely make my pilots sign a training contract! Why should a company put $15k into someone that wants to jump ship right after training? I think this is more prevalent in the aviation industry than other industries. It doesnt even matter how great the company is to work for, some people leave for reasons other than "better opportunities".

Do B. Where can you go, get a type without some sort of training contract/agreement? When all the rest of the Gear Monkeys are wandering the streets looking for a job you'll be sitting pretty.

I didnt sign a training contract with my current company, but would have.

My vote is for option B though. Sounds like a pretty good gig to me!
 
SIC - one year contract. Once they give me the PIC/ATP in about a year its another 2 year contract flying for them as a captain.
 
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