asked to do a steam gauge sim for interview?

My first airliner in 1996. You kids today with your pink lines and autopilots. Bah!
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Kels Hughes said:
Hey guys... all my instrument time was generally with a Garmin 430 or G1000. I went to an interview and they had me get into a PA28 sim and fly an outbound DME arc and holding pattern then an inbound DME arc and an ILS with 300 cloud layer. Considering it had been a while I would say it wasn't exactly my best performance but I found it a bit surprising and odd considering everything. My question is, is there ever a situation in a newer commercial jet where I would be stuck to have to fly steam guages? I guess in the event I had total failure of all my GPS I would get radio vectors to get in and fly an ILS inbound, just wondered if there is any feedback on why they would ask for something like that?
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Live by the magenta line..... Die by the magenta line!
 
ZapBrannigan said:
Flew this last night.
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Enjoy this thread. http://forums.jetcareers.com/index....-Progression-...-in-flight-deck-images.70926/
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I was just going to take a picture of our mighty, far-superior-to-the-Airbus Boeing 737-400. Let's just say, it looks just like that. I'm sad that I never got to fly it here as I have yet to find any USAir pilot that had a bad thing to say about the 737, be it the -200, -300 or -400. I'm glad I'm getting to fly the 757/767 before they're gone and hope to fly the Super 80 before it's retired (but I have very special, nostalgic reasons for wanting to fly that airplane).

<--------Flying all glass/EFIS airplanes since 2004
 
Kels Hughes said:
Hey guys... all my instrument time was generally with a Garmin 430 or G1000. I went to an interview and they had me get into a PA28 sim and fly an outbound DME arc and holding pattern then an inbound DME arc and an ILS with 300 cloud layer. Considering it had been a while I would say it wasn't exactly my best performance but I found it a bit surprising and odd considering everything. My question is, is there ever a situation in a newer commercial jet where I would be stuck to have to fly steam guages? I guess in the event I had total failure of all my GPS I would get radio vectors to get in and fly an ILS inbound, just wondered if there is any feedback on why they would ask for something like that?
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Sounds like wherever you did your instrument training did you a disservice. The G1000 is so far ahead of any airline glass and FMS it's not even funny.

I'd post the video of the children of the magenta line if I could find it. Don't be one.
 
Kels Hughes said:
Hey guys... all my instrument time was generally with a Garmin 430 or G1000. I went to an interview and they had me get into a PA28 sim and fly an outbound DME arc and holding pattern then an inbound DME arc and an ILS with 300 cloud layer. Considering it had been a while I would say it wasn't exactly my best performance but I found it a bit surprising and odd considering everything. My question is, is there ever a situation in a newer commercial jet where I would be stuck to have to fly steam guages? I guess in the event I had total failure of all my GPS I would get radio vectors to get in and fly an ILS inbound, just wondered if there is any feedback on why they would ask for something like that?
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Where did you interview? Only place I know of that may be like that is Envoy.
 
Cptnchia said:
We've had issues with noobs who learned to fly in a G1000 trainer, went to an RJ, then got put in a steam guage plane. Needless to say, they required a "bit" more sim time to get up to speed.
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So why then do hiring departments continually hire guys they know will have problems in such an environment?
 
Maurus said:
So why then do hiring departments continually hire guys they know will have problems in such an environment?
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Because obviously it's harder for a 135 guy to figure out 121 rules and CRM than it is for a magenta child to learn steam gauges. Also 135 guys smell bad.
 
Roger Roger said:
Because obviously it's harder for a 135 guy to figure out 121 rules and CRM than it is for a magenta child to learn steam gauges. Also 135 guys smell bad.
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I know right? I hope my stench is wearing off a bit now in my 121 FO seat. Gotta check some boxes for some arbitrary HR nonsense.

Derg said:
Probably because there's no direct metric.

I'd rather hire a phenomenal employee and give him a little extra time in the simulator, rather than a guy who is going to breeze through training and be a complete ass.
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I hear ya, unfortunately this part is unavoidable within current hiring metrics. Unfortunately it is likely completely unavoidable until we can get mind readers that are legal to use in an interview.
 
Roger Roger said:
Because obviously it's harder for a 135 guy to figure out 121 rules and CRM than it is for a magenta child to learn steam gauges. Also 135 guys smell bad.
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Well, this:
Derg said:
Probably because there's no direct metric.

I'd rather hire a phenomenal employee and give him a little extra time in the simulator, rather than a guy who is going to breeze through training and be a complete ass.
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I've (interestingly) seen a few people wash out of regional initial sim as failures-to-adapt that had ample flight experience in the 135SPIFR world. Great sticks, but no CRM, and unwilling to help or be helped.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
I've (interestingly) seen a few people wash out of regional initial sim as failures-to-adapt that had ample flight experience in the 135SPIFR world. Great sticks, but no CRM, and unwilling to help or be helped.
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At the same time you have Allegiant picking up more and more AMF guys it seems that have 0 jet or crew time. I personally know one guy that just got picked up recently. Direct from AMF.

I do agree to an extent. Some guys just don't work well in a CRM environment that come from single pilot cargo. However there are tons of us out there that have a steam gauge background and have the 121 passenger experience they want yet they still pick up guys that have only ever seen glass cockpits and plop them into a 757 or MD88 that barely have a hint of glass up front.

The funny thing here is that I never even brought up SPIFR or even cargo in this thread. Steam gauge guys that could fit the role could be Skywest or Commutair guys. They could be SPIFR guys that made the transition to 121. Tons of us exist.
 
Maurus said:
At the same time you have Allegiant picking up more and more AMF guys it seems that have 0 jet or crew time. I personally know one guy that just got picked up recently. Direct from AMF.

I do agree to an extent. Some guys just don't work well in a CRM environment that come from single pilot cargo. However there are tons of us out there that have a steam gauge background and have the 121 passenger experience they want yet they still pick up guys that have only ever seen glass cockpits and plop them into a 757 or MD88 that barely have a hint of glass up front.

The funny thing here is that I never even brought up SPIFR or even cargo in this thread. Steam gauge guys that could fit the role could be Skywest or Commutair guys. They could be SPIFR guys that made the transition to 121. Tons of us exist.
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Oh, no doubt. (Recruiting is a very funny business, incidentally.)

I think the point is that it's a very individualized thing; some guys just can't/won't adapt themselves to the environment, and some of us love it. I'd like to have a more varied background than I have, so I'll probably collect another type rating here pretty soon, again in a glass/jet airplane. But I wouldn't trade my Brasilia flying for much else...unless it was on a tropical island, mon. :)
 
So for someone like myself currently working on an instrument rating at a school that only has G1000 Cessnas.... It sounds like I should I find a school that has conventional instruments after my checkride to start getting that experience early on?

Maybe do my commercial work in a conventional?
 
AA34 said:
So for someone like myself currently working on an instrument rating at a school that only has G1000 Cessnas.... It sounds like I should I find a school that has conventional instruments after my checkride to start getting that experience early on?

Maybe do my commercial work in a conventional?
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It can't hurt. Especially since if your plan is to become a CFI. Last you you need to do is learn everything in glass and then go to train someone in a steam gauge plane. You never know where your career will take you. As far as you know you will be flying NDB approaches every day in a year or two.

Autothrust Blue said:
Oh, no doubt. (Recruiting is a very funny business, incidentally.)
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Indeed it is. I just don't feel as if any of my experience over the last few years is valued in the least. When I see my better networked and experienced peers not making any headway it makes me wonder if I completely threw away a couple years of my life to build an increasingly rare experience set to help make myself "well rounded" in the eyes of a recruiter.

I'm not looking for "Oh he flew a metro SPIFR he must be a badass. Hire him immediately!" It would just be nice to see some recognition in the recruitment field.

I know I have a long time left in the career, its just that sometimes one hesitation is all it takes to become that guy that is #1 seniority of a furlough list.
 
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If you're a steam guager/low automation guy and go to an airplane like an e190 or airbus you'll be behind. If you're a glass guy and go to a Dc9 or 737 classic, if imagine you be behind. Do like Deion and do both.
 
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