Asiana Pilots Fault Equipment Malfunction in SFO Crash

[Autothrust Blue]

"One of the three pilots in the Asiana cockpit told investigators after the accident that he thought the plane's automatic throttle was maintaining speed as the plane descended to land, but later discovered it wasn't sending power to the engine, Hersman told reporters in briefings following the accident."

Which is what happens when you bug field elevation in the altitude select window and select flight level change with the autopilot off...

The equipment didn't fail, the pilots understanding of the equipment did....

We don't have the same sort of bells and whistles on the Brasilia that fancy jet drivers have, but I grind my teeth a bit when people wind the altitude window down to zero when cleared to the approach. (Slightly more common is spinning it upwards. I resolve to only put in an altitude that makes sense (pattern) if ever I'm a Captain.)

 

[Screaming_Emu]

I've heard that at Asiana pilots are REQUIRED to use auto land whenever it is available.

Obviously the pilots made an error, but if the company forbids it's pilots from flying the plane, they are at least a little bit at fault. Hand flying is a perishable skill. I see that at my own company. The guys who turn the autopilot on at 600 ft and off at minimums, then wonder why their landings suck. Unfortunately that's "company recommended" procedure.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I've heard that at Asiana pilots are REQUIRED to use auto land whenever it is available.

Obviously the pilots made an error, but if the company forbids it's pilots from flying the plane, they are at least a little bit at fault. Hand flying is a perishable skill. I see that at my own company. The guys who turn the autopilot on at 600 ft and off at minimums, then wonder why their landings suck. Unfortunately that's "company recommended" procedure.

In the words of Captain what's-his-name at American, "I am so sorry! Look at what we did to you!"

 

[Boris Badenov]

"Some peckerwood's gotta take the beast up, and some peckerwood's gotta...LAND the sonofabitch. And that peckerwood is called a..."

 

[ClarkGriswold]

but I grind my teeth a bit when people wind the altitude window down to zero when cleared to the approach.

Uhh what? People do this?

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Uhh what? People do this?

Yes, I call it "smoking crater mode".

 

[Pépé le Pilot]

I taught chinese cadets and those are the little buggers that will be PIC on jumbos in a few years. I feel bad making generalizations, but I would imagine a lot of airline pilots in other parts of the world should never fly a commercial aircraft again. I've had students almost roll me in a Seminole, after yelling and more training pass a simple checkride, then start A320 or 737 training a few weeks later back in China. You think watching the captain watch the autopilot for a few years will prepare them to be a good airline captain? Good luck with that

I taught middle east students, and the only thing that I can think of is thank god for flight envelope protection and advanced automation and hawkeyed captains.... South American students are prett-tttttttyyyyy bad too but more from a lack of studying than general ability...

 

[broncoav8r]

Uhh what? People do this?

Not in the US or Europe they don't....

 

[ClarkGriswold]

Not in the US or Europe they don't....

Well considering Autothrust is @ Skywest I would say that is false.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Well considering Autothrust is @ Skywest I would say that is false.

I've seen Southwest do it too. I kid you not.


AFIS LINK ACK

 

[ClarkGriswold]

I've seen Southwest do it too. I kid you not.


AFIS LINK ACK

Shocking

 

[dasleben]

AFAIK, FedEx also sets MCP to zero.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

I've seen Southwest do it too. I kid you not.


AFIS LINK ACK

That's actually not that shocking.

 

[Mike Wise]

Is there no speed warning once you get into the bottom redline of the speed tape ? - And I'm assuming there's some sort of warning or caution range on the speed tape once you approach vSO..

 

[Bumblebee]

We don't have the same sort of bells and whistles on the Brasilia that fancy jet drivers have, but I grind my teeth a bit when people wind the altitude window down to zero when cleared to the approach. (Slightly more common is spinning it upwards. I resolve to only put in an altitude that makes sense (pattern) if ever I'm a Captain.)

I put missed approach altitude in...cause your never sure about landing until you raise the flaps in the flare.

 

[z987k]

I put missed approach altitude in...cause your never sure about landing until you raise the flaps in the flare.

That's what we do. Well there's one at minimums for the approach and then one for the missed as well.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

AFAIK, FedEx also sets MCP to zero.

What in blazes are they smoking, and is that a matter of SOP, or technique?

I still blurt out "Set pattern altitude and Vapp/clb" every once in a while (@Tld).

 

[Autothrust Blue]

That's what we do. Well there's one at minimums for the approach and then one for the missed as well.

Pattern altitude (VMC), an altitude you KNOW you're going to get if you go around (3,000' at LAX), or the missed approach altitude, make sense for the window.

 

[adk]

Pattern altitude (VMC), an altitude you KNOW you're going to get if you go around (3,000' at LAX), or the missed approach altitude, make sense for the window.

How is setting pattern altitude any safer than spinning it to zero?

 

[PositionAndHold]

How is setting pattern altitude any safer than spinning it to zero?

Because it's the next usable altitude if you have to go-around vmc. Especially at smaller uncontrolled airports. Even if the tower gives you some thing different you don't have as far to go. Zero is never an altitude that'll be used. You might as well use all available tools. Which is what we do, set VFR pattern alt in vmc or missed approach alt in ifr conditions.