ASAP program potentially ending at AA

[Orange Anchor]

I'll admit, I need to dig into the program to confirm this, but I've been told by multiple people that if we file an ASAP and anyone else reports the incident (willful misconduct or no), you will get a violation on your record.

That may be as PCL has noted but if that is true, it invalidates the entire program and turns it into a silly useless exercise. You file and think you are protected and then a controller files and your protection is removed? Dumb and counter productive. In any case, if you file a NASA, it will not stop a violation but it can prevent a sanction against your ticket.

ASAPs tend to be subjective just like NASA ASRs but FOQA is objective. It is what happened and when. Therefore for a full-up program, one needs both FOQA and ASAP.

I think it was Norway or one of the Scandanavian countries.. they didn't have an ASAP and there were practically no information on system errors. They put the ASAP in place and it opened the flood gate. Some info was leaked to a newspaper and the flood dropped to a trickle IMMEDIATELY. the government enacted laws that makes it a CRIME to divulge the information to anyone other than those in the program. Of course, that occurs in a different society and a different legal climate, obviously very different from the US.

People are NOT going to talk about error, mistakes or events outside the envelope while someone is holding a gun on them. And the buy-in from the FAA was that instead of shooting people, they would actually partner in finding weak points in the system.

Talk with your reps and find out who the 'gate keeper' is. They can definitely tell you the real skinny.. not just what someone thinks.

 

[gtpilot]

I thought PCL's reply to my PM was a great summary - not all ASAP programs are created equal it seems:

I would definitely submit one for an altitude bust. ASAP does offer one extra bit of protection that an ASRS (NASA) form doesn't: ASRS reports can only be used to protect you once every two years. You can submit as many as you want, but if they actually come after you and you use the form as a basis for reduced or no disciplinary action from the FAA, then that's it for two years. There's no limit on the number of times that ASAP can protect you, though. Even though your program is more limited than many ASAP programs, most FAA inspectors that sit on ASAP Event Review Committees will accept your reports anyway and allow them to protect you. What the company does is a different story, but the FAA will usually allow you to use the form for protection. What I recommend for someone at your company is to file both an ASAP and an ASRS report. It can't hurt to file both. Our computer system for filing ASAP reports has a box we can check to automatically file both reports when you submit the ASAP form. If you can't do that, then just submit the ASRS separately. That's my advice, anyway. Give your FO rep a call and see what they have to say. They might have more information about what your ASAP ERC is doing and how the program is working.

According to our LOA, the only protection our ASAP program offers is against action from the company, not the FAA. Hopefully, as PCL states, the FAA will take the ASAP report into consideration when considering taking action.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Someone should Asap the Asap committee for terminating.

Prolly be rejected.

 

[Orange Anchor]

The ASAP AC-120-66B is here. http://tinyurl.com/2oqkv8

See section 8 as to what reports are entered into the ASAP and how that is agreed upon.

In Section 11 it states what is excluded.

c. Reports Excluded From ASAP.
(1) Reported events that are excluded from ASAP will be referred to the FAA for possible enforcement action and/or re-examination under 49 U.S.C., Subtitle VII, and as prescribed in FAA Order 2150.3A.
(2) Reports of events that appear to involve possible criminal activity, substance abuse, controlled substances, alcohol, or intentional falsification will be referred to an appropriate FAA office for further handling. The FAA may use such reports for any enforcement purposes, and will refer such reports to law enforcement agencies, if appropriate. If upon completion of subsequent investigation it is determined that the event did not involve any of the aforementioned activities, then the report will be referred back to the ERC for a determination of acceptability under ASAP. Such reports will be accepted under ASAP provided they otherwise meet the acceptance criteria contained in paragraph 9 of this advisory circular.
(3) Neither the written ASAP report nor the content of the written ASAP report will be used to initiate or support company discipline or as evidence for any purpose in a FAA enforcement action except as provided for in 11c(2). The FAA may conduct an independent investigation of an event disclosed in a report

Best of luck with the mistake.