ASA direct track checkride PASSED!

Sometimes I wonder if I should have done the direct track, hey here I am having done 30hrs flying for all of 2005 (although 25 of that was turbine :) and guys who were doing their private cross countys when I was working on my CFII are now flying RJs. Although I got just about all the same training as they did but for free, and I'm even making more money than they are. Plus I've made a lot of good contacts come the time I actually am in a position to start applying for a jet job.

I've started instructing and it has been quite a learning experence and it's only been 2 weeks! First student barfed (in a bag thankfully) 2nd student's idea of getting to know the airplane is buzzing houses. Man how do you teach a 1200hr pilot when he's redoing his private, geez talk about a know it all. Plus I've realised the CFI can't just sit there and kick back, unless the student is really compentent, but chances are, if he's flying with a CFI, it's because he needs one lol. I wasn't really paying attention to the radio cause I thought the instrumented rated student knew what was going on and somehow we both missed the ATC call to extend our downwind and we turned in front of traffic on final, I learn't my lesson, pay attention! Plus being a CFI is really your first pilot in command duty, your actually responcable for someone elses actions.

I had a choice to do direct track or CFI, I chose the latter and I'm glad I did, first I think instructing is fun, I get to sight see a lot more at low altitude, I've got the rest of my career to spend in the flight levels. Plus I think the experence you get is valuable as a pilot and will make you a safer pilot untimatly. I'm happy with the route I've chosen, I'll make it to a regional eventially and I'll have the experence to back it up when I do.

Just my 2 cents, I'm not really for or against the direct track, I just chose what I thought was best for me.
 
"being a CFI is really your first pilot in command duty, your actually responcable for someone elses actions"

A great learning experience direct track doesn't provide. Reason #3 not to do a direct track program.
 
CLR4ILS said:
Not to mention that we do have an agreement with NetJets for the instructors once they hit a certain number of hours (1000-1200 I think).
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Would you care to expand on this statement? I have never heard of this type of program being implemented. Although it was discussed several years ago and met with considerable resistance from our pilots.

As you also mentioned, our owners expect certain minimums and the 2500tt is set in stone. I can only think that this program would direct a low time pilot to our employee flight school, not the fractional fleet.
 
From what I know their is no agreement at this time for instructors. At least I've never heard anything like that. Their were a few people hired by NJA as I recall, but I don't know how much time they had (my have been something through the internship I think).
 
badco99 said:
Their were a few people hired by NJA as I recall, but I don't know how much time they had (my have been something through the internship I think).
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I know that we have (office) internships, and I know that we have hired people from the office to be pilots. However, everyone must meet the 2500tt (etc) requirement before becoming a NJA pilot. I'm sure interns get some kind of priority with getting an interview but they don't get any lower minimums (thankfully).
 
NJA_Capt said:
I know that we have (office) internships, and I know that we have hired people from the office to be pilots. However, everyone must meet the 2500tt (etc) requirement before becoming a NJA pilot. I'm sure interns get some kind of priority with getting an interview but they don't get any lower minimums (thankfully).
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Exactomundo....NetJets and FSA started the beginnings of a "preferred interview" type agreement, but it ended up going Tango Uniform before it even started....The reason you ask?? (one of them at least) Because NetJets was unwilling to lower their minimums......Kinda funny since they're both owned by Uncle Warren, and insured by the same.......
 
congratulations badco !!!!....on passing your direct track checkride....I hope you get a ground school soon.

I planning to be in vero beach in april.....I will have to do a multi engine commercial add-on on my canadian/U.S single engine commercial license....I am thinking of doing the phase II(multi-eng ADD-on) instead of the IIA which is just the multi evaluation...Is that advisable?, I figured it would'nt hurt to learn the FSA way first and then get evaluated on it.

Also, Is there any movement in the direct track program with students getting hired...You are probably the best to answer this since you are there....as far as FSA marketing is concerned its always sunny at the regionals.
 
Thanks for the congrats.

I'm not real familiar with the phase II/IIA stuff. I'd say if you're not comfortable or up to speed I'd do everything and not just the eval.

As for hiring, direct track classes for ExpressJet and American Eagle just started. TSA is waiting to see how the people that are there now do in training before they take any more and ASA is still on hold.

Yeah, marketing always gives a sunny out look. Was in their today and told anything that happens to Delta shouldn't affect ASA. I'm not so sure. I kicked my resume out for a traffic watch job, so we'll see what happens with that.
 
badco99 said:
Yeah, marketing always gives a sunny out look. Was in their today and told anything that happens to Delta shouldn't affect ASA. I'm not so sure.
What the...? Seeing as how we do ALL of our flying for Delta, I'd say our fortunes are quite closely tied. Now, if they are talking about the LONG term, maybe not. I mean, if Delta liquidates, we should pick up traffic for another carrier, but that would only be after we had a major re-structure, and my white butt was furloughed. The short term for ASA would be devastating.

There's no harm in blind optimism though!
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what about people that don't make good instructors?

I've met and seen some really crappy instructors that should not be instructors, these guys do not have people skills, don't know what they are talking about, these are the guys that always have you look up an answer for a question that you've asked...these guys have no business instructing.

As for me, I'm seriously looking at the direct track programs, I'm looking into FSA & ATP's program, you go in with 350 hours and you fly 150 hours in diamonds and the semiole. Granted that you won't get the experience that you would be from instructing, but you are building your time and learning from that experience, and how to fly with different people and learning CRM, which pretty much the regionals do.

I know myself, I know I won't make a good instructor...granted I know how to shoot a partial panel approach, but I had a really good instructor, and i don't think I can do it...Why subject students to a bad instructor and turn out bad students? I don't know why I wouldn't make a good instructor and it's not that I'm trying to take a 'short cut' but you have to call it as you see it, I love to fly, i think I'm a good pilot, haven't had any complaints with people that i'm flying with...but overall I'm not sure if I have what it takes to be a good instructor....
 
AV8TOR said:
...that should not be instructors, these guys do not have people skills, don't know what they are talking about, these are the guys that always have you look up an answer for a question that you've asked...these guys have no business instructing.
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With the traits you have listed, why would an airline captain want to sit beside someone with "no people skills" and "doesn't know what he's talking bout?"

Something to think about.
 
AV8TOR said:
what about people that don't make good instructors?

I've met and seen some really crappy instructors that should not be instructors, these guys do not have people skills, don't know what they are talking about, these are the guys that always have you look up an answer for a question that you've asked...these guys have no business instructing.

As for me, I'm seriously looking at the direct track programs, I'm looking into FSA & ATP's program, you go in with 350 hours and you fly 150 hours in diamonds and the semiole. Granted that you won't get the experience that you would be from instructing, but you are building your time and learning from that experience, and how to fly with different people and learning CRM, which pretty much the regionals do.

I know myself, I know I won't make a good instructor...granted I know how to shoot a partial panel approach, but I had a really good instructor, and i don't think I can do it...Why subject students to a bad instructor and turn out bad students? I don't know why I wouldn't make a good instructor and it's not that I'm trying to take a 'short cut' but you have to call it as you see it, I love to fly, i think I'm a good pilot, haven't had any complaints with people that i'm flying with...but overall I'm not sure if I have what it takes to be a good instructor....
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Another thing to think about...

Like it or not, when you upgrade to captain someday, you will be a de facto instructor. It sure would be nice to have some formal training before you go teaching your FOs things.

G
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
What the...? Seeing as how we do ALL of our flying for Delta, I'd say our fortunes are quite closely tied. Now, if they are talking about the LONG term, maybe not. I mean, if Delta liquidates, we should pick up traffic for another carrier, but that would only be after we had a major re-structure, and my white butt was furloughed. The short term for ASA would be devastating.

There's no harm in blind optimism though!
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Thats why I'm expecting the worst, but hoping for the best. With everything that is going on I think it's going to be a lot longer than March or April before classes get started again.
 
AV8TOR said:
what about people that don't make good instructors?

I've met and seen some really crappy instructors that should not be instructors, these guys do not have people skills, don't know what they are talking about, these are the guys that always have you look up an answer for a question that you've asked...these guys have no business instructing.
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yes, there are some instructors who just aren't good at the job. However, most instructors will challenge their students to learn on their own and guide them to an answer instead of giving it to them. I would say that an instructor who gives a student all the answers is much worse than the instructor who says, "Go look it up, and tell me what you find out".

As for me, I'm seriously looking at the direct track programs, I'm looking into FSA & ATP's program, you go in with 350 hours and you fly 150 hours in diamonds and the semiole. Granted that you won't get the experience that you would be from instructing, but you are building your time and learning from that experience, and how to fly with different people and learning CRM, which pretty much the regionals do.
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ahh young one......experience is a good thing to have. Whether it comes from instructing, towing banners, or crop dusting...scaring yourself a couple of times before you have 50 people behind you is a good thing. Just remember, Checklists and CRM are not the only two things that determine what you do at an airline. The First Officer is just as responsible for the people and the aircraft as the captain. I just finished three day trip where the captain for one reason or another didn't bring his "A" game. I was very busy trying to make up for his slack. If I didn't have the experience of instructing, things could have been much worse.

I know myself, I know I won't make a good instructor...granted I know how to shoot a partial panel approach, but I had a really good instructor, and i don't think I can do it...Why subject students to a bad instructor and turn out bad students? I don't know why I wouldn't make a good instructor and it's not that I'm trying to take a 'short cut' but you have to call it as you see it, I love to fly, i think I'm a good pilot, haven't had any complaints with people that i'm flying with...but overall I'm not sure if I have what it takes to be a good instructor....
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Believe me when I say that you won't know until you do it. I was just as self-critical and afraid when I started instructing. I ended up earning a nearly perfect pass rate, and the respect of students as well as other instructors. I achieved that despite what I thought of myself when I started training. If everyone is saying good things about you and your piloting skills, then you should be proud and have nothing to worry about. Also remember that instructing isn't the only way to an airline job. There are many many many many many different avenues you can take. It all depends on how hard you are willing to work to make things happen. Selling yourself out and selling yourself short (i.e. joining the direct track program) will (maybe) get you a job at a regional, but it won't help you build the pride that you deserve when you get to that point....

end rant.
 
good luck badco....

Would you happen to know how well do the airlines take safety pilot time in your logbook.

It's in regards to these Multi-eng time/safety pilot blocks that are available from a few places that I am sure you are aware of. are there any guys coming in with over a 100 multi time from these places to FSA to meet the minimum req'd for Ejet and AE.
 
I have noticed something on this forum and ...I don't know why some individuals are so hung up about the direct track or PFJ's as they call them. In Europe and other parts of the world this the way people are hired for the Airlines.
For British Airways,KLM and among many others....young lads, all they need to have is good aptitude and an interest in Aviation for their so called Cadet Pilot training schemes, all of their Ab-initio training is paid for and then their Jet endorsements after that. They are trained to be an Airline pilot from day one...their commercial written involves complete flight planning of an Airbus 320 or a 737 with multiple stops and
inter-mediate climbs and decents and even their radio operator's license testing is simulated with selcal checks and HF freq's as if they were flying over the atlantic. By the time these students graduate with basic 250 hrs CPL/IR/ME...they are ready for that jet endorsement and believe me I have seen some and have some friends who are just as capable and knowledgeable as a 2000 hr instructor or 135 pilot applying for a regional position.

FSA is giving a chance to the few aspiring carreer minded student pilots with low time to get their dream job to do what they like best......Who knows this may change the old ways of thinking that students have to instruct first spend a couple of years at a 135 carrier before even thinking about the airlines.......It's even worse here in canada ...where the mentality is to spend years freezing your fingers off up north working for sleazy operators who pay next to nothing ...just because they know they will always find somone who is willing to work for food or hrs.

just my 2 cents....nothing personal ....!
 
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