Around the ramp at the home field, MZJ

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
Hey @MikeD what is the consistency of that silver metallic stuff applied for storage? I’m imagining somewhere between space blanket and aluminum foil.
it’s basically aluminum foil. It’s for temporary storage, mostly, as it does eventually tear due to wind/debris and requires replacing. The military uses this for temp storage, and for long term storage, will use the black undercoat spray and white overcoat spray “spraylat”.
 

AM011309

Well-Known Member
Why do they paint over the airline name? I also saw some pictures of some AA planes where they painted over one of the color stripes too. I know pretty much all do it, it’s still obvious what airline it was and since it was just retired and not crashed (which even in that case it’s not like the airline is a secret, you can still tell what it is) - why do they do it?
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
Why do they paint over the airline name? I also saw some pictures of some AA planes where they painted over one of the color stripes too. I know pretty much all do it, it’s still obvious what airline it was and since it was just retired and not crashed (which even in that case it’s not like the airline is a secret, you can still tell what it is) - why do they do it?
not certain why exactly, for planes being simply scrapped. AA and Delta definitely do it. Other airlines planes here, still have their full liveries, including company name, throughout their scrapping. You’ll even see those in this thread.
 

Bandit_Driver

Gold Member
NWA and FedEx do it as well. On the planes I've seen donated the names are quickly painted over after arrival at their final resting place. I believe it is done simple for PR reasons. Even though anyone that pays attention can recognize the paint schemes.

Anyone know if the NWA 727's are still rotting away in El Paso?
 

Sculprit

Well-Known Member
Anyone know if the NWA 727's are still rotting away in El Paso?
There’s 2 727’s parked at ELP, ones all white on the south side of the field and the other one is grey on the north side. Neither one have any signs that resemble any of the NWA liverys so maybe but not sure. Tower said both planes have been sitting for years.
 

Richman

That's "Lord Garth" to you
There’s 2 727’s parked at ELP, ones all white on the south side of the field and the other one is grey on the north side. Neither one have any signs that resemble any of the NWA liverys so maybe but not sure. Tower said both planes have been sitting for years.
If you walked past them and suddenly felt awesomer, then yea, they were NWA birds. They have that effect.
 

trafficinsight

Well-Known Member
Yes they were, one of the main ones. Intermountain's former President, is now the President of Sierra Pacific Airlines.

Intermountain's public image was that of aircraft storage, maintenance, and flight operations doing forest fire support dropping smokejumpers as well as aerial firefighting.

Their behind the scenes stuff was all sorts of clandestine crap.

The company motto on their brochures was "Total Air Support for Remote Operations".

Take that to mean whatever application you like......

Were they the ones involved in some scandal about swapping "museum" airplanes to the government for C-130s to convert to tankers and somehow the tanker 130 crash was part of that? Or is my memory all twisted up?
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
Were they the ones involved in some scandal about swapping "museum" airplanes to the government for C-130s to convert to tankers and somehow the tanker 130 crash was part of that? Or is my memory all twisted up?
Remember that well, as it went to federal court here in Tucson. That was a few of the air tanker companies, some of which no longer exist; and two aircraft broker guys who were working with the USFS. Companies like Hemet Valley Flying Service in California and T&G Aviation in Arizona, along with Aero Union in California, and Hawkins and Powers of Wyoming (only T&G exists under a new name). The deal in the late 1980s was the two aircraft brokers worked a trade with the USAF to swap old USFS “historic” former military planes that were now tankers, for C-130As and P-3As that were sitting in the Tucson boneyard, as an upgrade program of sorts for the tanker fleet: The trade-in planes were mostly clapped out junk, C-119s, PB4Y-2s, PBYs, some TBMs. These were traded in and the -130s and P-3s were to be loaned to these private operators, with the title retained by the government. The two aircraft brokers somehow managed to have the C-130s and P-3s titles transferred to the private operators above, which the US Govt didn’t know about, as well as keeping two for themselves.

The problem was, not to much the P-3s, but the C-130As. They were 1956 A models. They had 3 decades of assault landings and such, and there was a reason they were in the boneyard, as they were worn out. Then, they were taken out and modified into aerial tankers. Which is a hugely stressful job to an aircraft. One aircraft of Hemet Valley crashed in California in 1994 when it suffered a wingbox explosion while in cruise, killing the crew. Certificated for 3000 gallons, figuring about 10lbs/gallon or so, that’s 30,000 lbs being carried in flight, and subsequently dumped, over and over, multiple times a day on a fire. Then in 2002, the crash in California of the H&P C-130 that was caught on camera, with both wings separating right after the drop. That finally got the A model C-130s grounded for US firefighting operations. But they could still be used overseas. A few of them still fly with the company that superseded T&G Aviation, now known as International Air Response and located in Chandler still. The first crash of the -130s opened the can of “where did these planes come from?” Another problem was substandard maintenance. The companies that received these -130s for free in trade, didn’t anticipate the maintenance costs for them. A couple of these C-130s were seized in Mexico being caught hauling dope. The whole thing was a pretty big mess, and the two USFS brokers went to prison over it,
If I remember right.
 

stroboli62

Well-Known Member
Not that I always believe the media:


But it waz a typical crap show of folks thinking that they could run an aviation operation...running it thru the back door, side door, garage door, CIA door, back thru the vendor/ contractor door....these guys were some gems

Then 25-30 yrs later the same group did not have the aviation acumen to run a C130 program with a "donation" from the USCG of 7- C130s from the 2014 NDAA and now the program has shifted to CalFire

So, all in all, the Federal fire aviation program is even a sore subject to this day in regard to shortages and whatnot

Time for the airtanker program to be "lifted" from the land management agencies and put into some responsible aviation hands
 

Space Monkey

Well-Known Member
Not that I always believe the media:


But it waz a typical crap show of folks thinking that they could run an aviation operation...running it thru the back door, side door, garage door, CIA door, back thru the vendor/ contractor door....these guys were some gems

Then 25-30 yrs later the same group did not have the aviation acumen to run a C130 program with a "donation" from the USCG of 7- C130s from the 2014 NDAA and now the program has shifted to CalFire

So, all in all, the Federal fire aviation program is even a sore subject to this day in regard to shortages and whatnot

Time for the airtanker program to be "lifted" from the land management agencies and put into some responsible aviation hands
I know nothing about that lawsuit... I do know that one of the H&P-delivered C130s (allegedly with uncounted dark hours due to black ops) ended up doing this...

 

stroboli62

Well-Known Member
Yep and that's why the industry is slowly improving.

Yet some bureaucrats will counter the old history of contractors trying to get over on the Guv...... but yet some folks in Guv need to know their lanes and let industry do what it does best. Notice that all of the contractors are putting in alot of the R&D without remuneration from anyone

Can't blame them for wanting 5 and 10 year contracts
 
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