Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Well let's hold up here, have we established that she didn't follow the rules? Too much missing information.
Army veteran with PTSD ridiculed by American Airlines employees
- Thread starter Oxman
- Start date
FlyingAccountant
Well-Known Member
The article says she was asked for documentation for the animal by the gate agent and wasn't able to provide it claiming "she had never been asked for it in the past".
We don't really know what happened after that, but we're also only hearing her side of the story.
futurevagabondpilot
Roving Member
Highly-decorated Army veteran with PTSD ridiculed by American Airlines employees who repeatedly refused to let her fly home with service dog, lawsuit claims
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...cked-american-airlines-suit-article-1.2848966
Maybe she didn't follow the rules. If so, then that's on her.
At the same time, it sounds like the airline employees were first-class @ssh0les. The situation was escalated way beyond what it needed to be- likely by BOTH sides- topped off by what sounds like a heaping scoop of ignorance about service animals and PTSD (a wheelchair? Really? That's just insult to injury!)
There is a way for an airline to provide excellent customer service while insisting that all passengers follow the rules. This was NOT it.
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Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
This is a sensationalist newspaper reporting on one half of a story as told in a filed lawsuit.
I don't think we are even in the ballpark of establishing much in the way of "fact" about the whole situation, much less being able to ascertain what kind of "customer service" was actually being provided.
I don't think we are even in the ballpark of establishing much in the way of "fact" about the whole situation, much less being able to ascertain what kind of "customer service" was actually being provided.
D
Deleted member 27505
Guest
Concur. The whole veteran worship scam grows a wee tad irksome. Many have served, and I thank them. But since 1973, no one has "served" without wanting to. And most who have wanted to have wanted to because the military has a huge toy budget and allows some of its employees do things like fly airplanes, steer boats, blow things up, and shoot at things. Additionally it's a job with incredible benefits - especially post-employment benefits. True, for those opportunities and benefits, the military has much more stringent work and severance of service rules than most companies at which one might go work. In fact, it's got its own set of laws. Other than that... Its a job. OK, in the military, a relatively small percentage of personnel will actually get shot at at some point. Most, although technically required to be "combat ready" will never see combat. But that still works out because the military is a little like the boy scouts... everybody gets a ribbon (is "decorated") for something. Then there are the REMF brass... they don't even need the lavish entitlements they get, because General Dynamics or Boeing, or some DOD consultancy, or some government agency has a sweet sinecure ready and waiting right behind the revolving door. I know guys right now collecting two pensions and a government income that will become a third pension.
Just for the record, I'm not anti-military. And I'm very appreciative of most who have served. That said, there are huge issues around the fear-based veteran worship that has developed culturally in the last 15 years. I think we should bring back the draft. When everyone serves, everyone knows the realities, politicians are less inclined to make retarded engagement decisions, and a heterogeneous mix of military personnel is maintained.
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NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
I always laugh when I hear people complaining about how many deployments they've been on. If you enlisted after 2001, or at least 2003, you knew damn well (or at least should have) what you were getting in to. Especially those who reenlisted.
falconvalley
Absentee Dad of the OOTSK, Runner, Cat Frustrator
I'm going to have to slightly disagree with you. It's a label. We are big on labeling each other and scrutinizing each other's labels. That is historically consistent. But you're rationalizing very deep here. Again, if you drop the label and generalize, it's pretty deep. There is absolutely no need for that as the playing field is full of labels. Most of the hype is socially created. People complain about stuff that just isn't true because, well...telephone game.
D
Deleted member 27505
Guest
I don't follow. What are you disagreeing with, precisely? If I copy you correctly, my statement implies agreement with you that we have a labeling problem. If your push-back is that what I'm saying is a generalization, I'll be the first to agree. When one is speaking of policy for something as large as the US military, one perforce must generalize. Generalizations can be incorrect, however, they are not rendered incorrect simply because they address general conditions.
Also, how is what I'm saying a rationalization? Or perhaps the question should be what is it that you take me to be rationalizing?
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
I see both sides of this. On the one hand, everyone who volunteers in today's military is doing more than the average person in selfless service. Are there benefits? Yes, but they become fewer as people expect more entitlements.
As for combat, non combat, sometimes it's tough to distinguish. One of the first real world missions I did while deployed was hauling clerks and jerks from Kuwait up to Najaf so they could be shot gun drivers. One day they're fat dumb and happy, the next they are fighting through ambushes.
Even training can be hazardous and deaths and serious injuries while fewer, are not uncommon. My wife, - military orthopedic surgeon, says the typical light infantry/special forces soldier will have a body beaten up like a pro football player's after one tour.
On the flip side, many in the military have been infected with the entitlement bug. The number of "disabled" veterans has sky rocketed compared to other conflicts. Heck, my grandfathers, my dad and my uncle all had Purple Hearts but none drew a disability. They felt it was for those really disabled. Now? Well, my wife tells the story of a rocket attack at her base in Afghanistan at 0200. They had a few light casualties. At 0630 they had a stream of soldiers come in and insist they had head trauma from the rocket. Why 0630? Chow hall opened at 0600. As soon as they heard about the rocket attack these soldiers headed over to the hospital to complain of "head trauma" (difficult to disprove), so they could get a Purple Heart and the ticket to disability. It sickened my wife. I think the number getting disability is now over 50%.
As for combat, non combat, sometimes it's tough to distinguish. One of the first real world missions I did while deployed was hauling clerks and jerks from Kuwait up to Najaf so they could be shot gun drivers. One day they're fat dumb and happy, the next they are fighting through ambushes.
Even training can be hazardous and deaths and serious injuries while fewer, are not uncommon. My wife, - military orthopedic surgeon, says the typical light infantry/special forces soldier will have a body beaten up like a pro football player's after one tour.
On the flip side, many in the military have been infected with the entitlement bug. The number of "disabled" veterans has sky rocketed compared to other conflicts. Heck, my grandfathers, my dad and my uncle all had Purple Hearts but none drew a disability. They felt it was for those really disabled. Now? Well, my wife tells the story of a rocket attack at her base in Afghanistan at 0200. They had a few light casualties. At 0630 they had a stream of soldiers come in and insist they had head trauma from the rocket. Why 0630? Chow hall opened at 0600. As soon as they heard about the rocket attack these soldiers headed over to the hospital to complain of "head trauma" (difficult to disprove), so they could get a Purple Heart and the ticket to disability. It sickened my wife. I think the number getting disability is now over 50%.
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NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
I know several collecting 10%+ for anxiety and they never left the wire.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
After 25 years of infantry and flying helicopters I retired with zero disability. When I retired I almost felt disability was being pushed on me. Several of those counseling me were shocked that I turned it down.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
I would also say to be careful about just making a snap judgement about a person's disability based upon appearance.
I had a guy come into a flight school a few years ago with his wife to ask about flying lessons. As we do with everyone asking, we handed him a standard form asking for his name, address, etc. The guy pulls out his wallet and starts to copy his name and address from his license.
He was an 88M- truck driver- in the Army. He had been IEDed so many times his brain was mush, he couldn't even remember his name and address without looking at his license. He could not even drive himself- his wife had to drive him to the airport. It was heartbreaking. I told him to see a flight doc first but there was probably no way he could get a medical.
I had a guy come into a flight school a few years ago with his wife to ask about flying lessons. As we do with everyone asking, we handed him a standard form asking for his name, address, etc. The guy pulls out his wallet and starts to copy his name and address from his license.
He was an 88M- truck driver- in the Army. He had been IEDed so many times his brain was mush, he couldn't even remember his name and address without looking at his license. He could not even drive himself- his wife had to drive him to the airport. It was heartbreaking. I told him to see a flight doc first but there was probably no way he could get a medical.
Lawman
Well-Known Member
That's not quite the qualifier it used to be though.
I know a whole lot of people who were way more at risk sitting on Basra or Shank and getting rocketed every day vs me tooling around at 2k AGL covering a convoy and pretty much invincible.
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Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I know a guy who would have been in his hooch but he was at a memorial for a crew that was shot down. When he got back to his hooch there was a hole in the roof, a hole in his bunk, and a dud mortar round sticking out of the floor boards.
Another guy was at a "safe" FOB, a week before rotating home, killed by a mortar round while in his bunk.
Lawman
Well-Known Member
I would get livid with the misapplication of missions because people didn't want to give up "their Apaches."
We end up screwing off for hours flying counter IED at a FOB that has never been shot at and meanwhile the poor bastards on FOB Boris over on the Pak/Afghan border get mortared twice a day and can't even get a shadow dedicated to them to find the IDF team.
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Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
I worked with a guy once who was collecting some amount of disability for hearing loss...and was able to hold a 2nd class medical and fly 135. I don't know the details of that whole process but on the surface it smelled sort of fishy.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
That just sucks.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
When I was retiring and doing my separation physical, it was like a kind of game to see how much disability you could rack up...mostly trying to get over that magic 50% number so you could get the disability payments tax-free in addition to the retirement check. I know perfectly functional guys who currently hold First Class medicals and fly for major 121 airlines who are greater than 50% "disabled" -- some substantially more than that, too.
I have yet to submit a disability claim. I suppose I'm missing out on some extra taxpayer money, but I don't really care.
I have yet to submit a disability claim. I suppose I'm missing out on some extra taxpayer money, but I don't really care.
Lawman
Well-Known Member
It's not the extra money that is the danger.
Thanks in part to disabled hiring practices for government jobs you are fighting in a rigged game to not claim disability. The magic number there is 30% which is effectively a "must hire first" flag over a similarly qualified applicant without it.
My dad is kicking himself for being a man about it and not claiming some of the minor stuff he had, because there are several times in his time at the VA where hiring of candidates for a position literally came down to disability trumping anything else.
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