ARFF truck accident at OAK, firefighter critically injured

Yeh but they see firsthand the effects of not wearing seat belts.
How is this germane? The first two auto accidents in which I was involved, neither my fault, was prior to mandatory seat belts. I survived, including a roll over when center punched by a larger vehicle at high speed. Other than total loss of vehicle I dint sue anyone. Again, how is your comment germane to the subject? Further, explain your latest comment vis a vis your previous comment that they would 'know better'.
 
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I am really having a difficult time understanding your vitriol of someone you know nothing about, who has been critically injured and may not even live. Why do you find it necessary to even make such completely out of place and disrespectful comments like this?
Don't point at me for your inability to understand.
An injured person is not to be scoffed. I am saddened that anyone should suffer physical pain. Truly I do. Unfortunately I know firsthand the immense discomfort of that state. (in the aftermath of one such incident I died on the operating table and was resuscitated. Is that not enough for you?) However, my comments have not been about that. Indeed, my comments have been all about how this apparently unqualified person came to be in sole command of a large vehicle, which off airport property, if even for personal use would dictate possession of CDL. Yet this person, in apparent ignorance, came to be in sole control of a govt asset which exists solely for crash, fire, or rescue on airport property. Further, I reiterate my claim that this accident, this injury, was the culmination of a 'look the other way', lackadaisical, permutation of classical elitist attitude performed and perpetuated by govt personnel. Such distinctives have existed and been promulgated within local govt for such a very long time that they have become de jour. Is that clear enough for you?

The apparent vitriol of my comments is derived from an insiders understanding of how local govt works especially within the state of California.

I hope you do not mean to suggest that I find delight in the sufferings of another person. I sincerely hope you do not suggest that even though your comments appear to suggest the same. While tragic, let me suggest something to you. A firefighter, by his nature of employment, is not to be hero-worshipped. I intend no disrespect but I will not knuckle under or capitulate to the informal and unwritten demand of respect warranted to one who occupies the position simply because they occupy the position. Such warrant is without merit.

Lastly, I have known many who have died. Some have passed due to disease or cancer, such as my dad. Others have perished due to accident whether it be high risk activity or grand misfortune. Still, others were because of suicide. Three times I was the last person to see such victim alive. One was found with detached head rolling in the waters of a small creek. Another, a most favored friend, had taken shotgun to mouth with expected results. Do not lecture to me of the tragedy of death.

At the number 25 I stopped counting the number of friends and close associates lost in aircraft accidents. One such accident involved the loss of 5 close associates. Can you imagine the horror of not just one but five deaths in a single accident? I do not wish this upon any person. I am not unknowing of premature and tragic death. I stopped counting but I remember the name of each person.
 
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NY State V & T Law specifically allows exemption for emergency responders from required seat belt use. Correctly or not, during the course of some thirty years of participation, I personally know very few first responders (fire, EMS or law enforcement) who use any kind of restraint when responding to an emergency in a piece of fire apparatus, ambulance or patrol car, despite individual department SOPs/SOGs.

Best wishes for a complete and quick recovery for the ARFF member ...
For personal use I drive 4x4 vehicles off road. It has been a long time habit of mine to not wear seat restraints when off road. I know in some ways such behavior results in increased risk but I want to be able to immediately exit the vehicle should the need arise. To what degree is increase in risk offset by need to exit unencumbered by restraints, I don't know. Perhaps I'm kidding myself. However, a specific past event taught me to not be harnessed while off road.
 
How is this germane? The first two auto accidents in which I was involved, neither my fault, was prior to mandatory seat belts. I survived, including a roll over when center punched by a larger vehicle at high speed. Other than total loss of vehicle I dint sue anyone. Again, how is your comment germane to the subject? Further, explain your latest comment vis a vis your previous comment that they would 'know better'.
Dude I don't even know what you're so spooled up about. Bob ridpath said that police/fire/EMS almost never wear seat belts while rushing to respond to incidents. I found that surprising as they get to see firsthand the effects of crashes with and without restraints. One would think that would cause them to think twice about ripping around unrestrained.
 
Dude I don't even know what you're so spooled up about. Bob ridpath said that police/fire/EMS almost never wear seat belts while rushing to respond to incidents. I found that surprising as they get to see firsthand the effects of crashes with and without restraints. One would think that would cause them to think twice about ripping around unrestrained.
Well what can you expect from someone who believes that firefighters have the "mental aptitude of chimps", that they are all out of shape physically and he is in better shape, that all they care about is finding some sort of devious ways to bang the system for higher retirement pay, that the fireman who is currently fighting for his life in a hospital is an "ignorant jerk off", goes on a rant about people he knows who have died and his own auto accidents (talk about something that is not germane to the thread-then questions someone else's comments as not being germane), claims to know exactly how this accident occurred, how incompetent all firefighters really are and has truly apparent issues. Seriously, I've seen some b.s. on this forum from time to time, but his epic fail of disrespectful and out to lunch rude rants in this thread is truly among the worst of them to date. Pretty damn disgraceful.

Perhaps he should head to the nearest fire station and repeat some of the utter tripe that he has stated in this thread instead of posting it in a thread about an injured fireman. I'd love to see that play out. That and get some help for his obvious issues.
 
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That's the bad part:

The trucks aren't designed for rollover accident protection in terms of seats, etc. The seats are only basic air-ride seats with lap belts. The driver/operator of an ARFF vehicle is generally not in full turnout gear. He/she is generally only in bunker/prox pants and boots, and maybe coat, but often doesn't have a helmet on. The reason for that is twofold:

1. The driver/operator isn't generally going to be exiting the vehicle on scene. His job is to stay with the vehicle and maneuver it as necessary to ensure the application of foam both on the fire or fire area, or at exits, or to support the disembarked firefighters from the ARFF truck (who would be in full gear) to the extent they require. The only time he would exit the truck is to work foam/water resupply issues, or some extenuating circumstance.

2. A helmet or other items in the ARFF truck interior hinders movement and vision to a certain extent, and drivers tend to keep them off for this reason. They have their gear with them if needed to exit the vehicle and assist, but it's not fully worn when responding for these reasons.
dude, do you have the SOP of every technical job memorized in your head? How the hell do you know so much stuff? I feel like you should be working at NASA or some secret google project in space.
 
Now for an opposing view;

Bloody hell, the truck operator should, at minimum, possess Class A CDL with proper endorsements. Do not disregard the purpose and intent of licensing and endorsements.

That's laughable. Have you ever taken the CDL exams? The written ones are a joke, and the driving test isn't much better. The tank endorsement, which would be the relevant one in this case, is a 20-question written, which consists almost entirely of "What happens to liquids when turning? A: They slosh. B: They slosh. C: They slosh. D: I'm legally brain dead". My total study time for the whole series of tests including hazmat was less than 2 hours. Any retard could pass it with minimal effort. A half-day class at the firehouse would teach them more than the state tests.
 
dude, do you have the SOP of every technical job memorized in your head? How the hell do you know so much stuff? I feel like you should be working at NASA or some secret google project in space.

I used to do the job long ago, as well as still do it today on a contract basis. So the SOPs are common-core.

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I can attest to the full volunteer department here in my township that we all wear our seat belts when responding to a call. It is part of our SOP. I'm not on the fire fighting but on the fire police side (probably since I do not have an athlete's body and have a chimps brain :). We have weekly drills as well as mandatory EVOC training for all of our members yearly. Some of our members have CDL and if they are available and qualified on the rig, they take the driver's seat. In our bay, we have 5 rigs with a marine unit as well and each of them has to be specifically qualified on. If a member wants to be a "driver" for the company regardless of holding a CDL, he/she is first trained on the utility vehicle and then move up. Kind of like going from a 172 to a wide body.

Anyway, I hope he has a quick and full recovery.
 
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NY State V & T Law specifically allows exemption for emergency responders from required seat belt use. Correctly or not, during the course of some thirty years of participation, I personally know very few first responders (fire, EMS or law enforcement) who use any kind of restraint when responding to an emergency in a piece of fire apparatus, ambulance or patrol car, despite individual department SOPs/SOGs.

Best wishes for a complete and quick recovery for the ARFF member ...

My fiancé is a firefighter/medic, has been for 18 years across several different departments.

I just asked her if it's common for them to not wear seatbelts when responding to a call. Her answer:

"If they are working a patient in the back, yes, otherwise [bleep] no. Always wear a seatbelt! Not to mention it's the law."
 
Just an update, a news report said as of a few days ago, the fire-fighter is awake and breathing on his own. Still in serious condition with life-threatening injuries. Poor guy. Reports also indicate he was indeed seatbelted in.
 
My airport department has Oshkosh Fire Trucks, similar to the accident vehicle. The cab design has the driver in a center seat with a very large turret handle and electric remote controls for the valve right above driver's head. The cab controls allows for a one person operation, for driving and application of foam from that top nozzles. Seat Belt always, but head protection with the hood/helmet was never used by the driver/engineer while operating the vehicle.
 
Forum fisticuffs or not, I love watching our guys at MHT do drills during downtime. It's always an event to see the Stryker outrun the older T3000 (or whatever we have - very similar to that design pictured). I'd hate watching one roll.

Best wishes to the driver's speedy recovery.
 
Forum fisticuffs or not, I love watching our guys at MHT do drills during downtime. It's always an event to see the Stryker outrun the older T3000 (or whatever we have - very similar to that design pictured). I'd hate watching one roll.

Best wishes to the driver's speedy recovery.

The Colet outruns them all. :)
 
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