Are You Applying FDC Notams?

B767Driver said:
I look at the NOTAMS every flight. Pretty much everyone at our outfit does.
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I'd be willing to bet that each pilot on the airplanes that landed would have said the same thing, yet, in this case, they clearly did not. The only reason they admitted to not having seen the NOTAM is that the evidence was undeniable.

Would they have been lying when they said they always checked NOTAMs? I don't think so. What I think typically happens, in all walks of life, is that we often assume that we actually did what we remember intending to do. Behavioral psychologists know well that our actual behavior differs greatly from what we say we would do in a given situation. The only way to know how people actually behave is to watch them.

I realize that this occurrence is a small sample space, but these pilots were from a variety of different companies. They weren't just a bunch of low-time Pinnacle pilots, either, but Fedex and Northwest guys too. Was this situation an anomaly or is it representative? No idea, of course.
 
Well, we can either look for excuses or look for alternatives, and when it's MY ticket on the line, I'll be doing the latter. Bottom line, simply ignoring the NOTAMs (regardless of where you get them) for a "lack of time" isn't a prudent option.
 
aloft said:
Well, we can either look for excuses or look for alternatives, and when it's MY ticket on the line, I'll be doing the latter. Bottom line, simply ignoring the NOTAMs (regardless of where you get them) for a "lack of time" isn't a prudent option.
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Let me know how that goes for you when you get to a company with no union protection and somebody gets pissy that you're constantly causing delays and there's nobody to call but your chief pilot to explain to them that you're smart enough to fly a jet around, but you can't read very fast.
 
And when it so happens that you don't get the chance? Then what? Don't tell me it wont happen because it WILL.
 
tgray-

I can honestly say that in the corporate culture at our (B767Driver, myself and I even seen MDPilot reading this thread as I write this) airline, we certainly look at all of the NOTAMS both in domestic and international theaters.

It's REALLY important when you start flying across the pond as there's all sorts of 'gotchas' especially when you start looking at mid-ocean diversionary airports.
 
Doug Taylor said:
tgray-

I can honestly say that in the corporate culture at our (B767Driver, myself and I even seen MDPilot reading this thread as I write this) airline, we certainly look at all of the NOTAMS both in domestic and international theaters.

It's REALLY important when you start flying across the pond as there's all sorts of 'gotchas' especially when you start looking at mid-ocean diversionary airports.
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It's the first step on our approach briefing...and I'd say 9/10 guys actually read the NOTAMS off the paper...one by one...as they brief it.

I don't know what other outfits do.
 
Our corporate culture is the same. Even on quick 10 minute tech-stops we recheck the weather, NOTAMS, pireps, airmets, sigmets, runway analysis, and RAIM prediction even if it costs a few extra minutes delay to our passengers.
 
jtrain609 said:
Let me know how that goes for you when you get to a company with no union protection and somebody gets pissy that you're constantly causing delays and there's nobody to call but your chief pilot to explain to them that you're smart enough to fly a jet around, but you can't read very fast.
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Or I'll do as I suggested and look em up from the hotel ahead of time, so all I'd need to do is skim the "official" ones in my release as I'd already have a cursory familiarity with their content. And on the occasions when I don't get the chance, that's when I'll delay the departure by the few minutes necessary to read them. Seriously, familiarizing yourself with the pertinent NOTAMs is about as optional as your preflight walkaround--which is to say, that it ISN'T.

Again, we can either look for excuses or look for alternative solutions.
 
jtrain609 said:
True enough, but when ops is calling you when you're 1 minute late pushing off the gate, what do you expect but for people to rush? Some captains will tell the company to shove it, some will allow themselves to get rushed it seems.

Maybe it's different at your company, and it's great and all to say, "YOU'VE GOTTA CHECK ALL THIS CRAP NO MATTER WHAT!" But if you want to have a frank discussion about this from the level that me and Ethan are at, this is what's happening. The formatting is horrible and mostly useless and doesn't lend itself to finding all the information you need.

I'm only just off high mins and I've seen guys get rushed trying to get off the gate more than a handful of times.
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Man, you appear to me to be the type who'll argue vehemently to contradict inequities/violations that arise. So what if someone is pressing you to expedite? If it violates safety, you'll be quick to press them to chill, right? Remember our shuttle conversations? Never compromise safety, right?
 
MFT1Air said:
Man, you appear to me to be the type who'll argue vehemently to contradict inequities/violations that arise. So what if someone is pressing you to expedite? If it violates safety, you have been quick to press them to chill. Remember our shuttle conversations? Never compromise safety, right?
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Fixed it for you, but good try.

EDIT: And BTW, you don't know me, you've never met me, never shared a cockpit with me and don't have any idea who I am.
 
Format sucks, but there's nothing we can do right now, so we move on and do the best we can. That being said, it looks like an extra space b/w NOTAMS on XJT's release goes a long way. That's the way our is, and it takes me about 5 seconds to go "Tower, tower, tower, Oooh, ILS 36, tower, tower, crane" as I skim the NOTAMs. You don't have to read each and every one. If I'm not doing the WLSTN1 out of MSP, then I don't read the NOTAM for that one. But if there's a NOTAM for the one I AM doing, then I'll read it. It's in the first few blocks of letters, so it's not that hard to pick out.

I haven't had to deal with an ILS to near mins in MEM lately, so I haven't seen the NOTAM on 36R. I'm flying out tomorrow, so I'll double check our release to make sure it's in there. Wouldn't surprise me if that one got conveniently dropped of the release....
 
jtrain609 said:
Fixed it for you, but good try.

EDIT: And BTW, you don't know me, you've never met me, never shared a cockpit with me and don't have any idea who I am.
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I take it the change you made to my quote indicates you're not pressured/intimdated by ground/support personnel or management? After all, I did ask a question. I"ll take your answer as a yes. . .

. . .you're right, I do not know you, have never met you, and I've never shared a cockpit with you. Insofar as having an idea of who you are, presently my perspective/opinion of you swings between your being a babbling idiot on one extreme as I read a few of your posts to that of an incisive promising young professional on the other. . .

. . .just my perspective. ;) But keep posting. I'll better understood you as you convey your thoughts/opinions online. With maturity and experience, most with potential turn out to be quite professional.
 
You won't have a clue until you actually meet me, actually. That's how this works, you go out and meet people from the forum and say, "OH CRAP! I FINALLY GET YOU!"

You wouldn't believe how many people I've done that with.
 
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