Are student pilots required to carry their logbooks w/ them during all solo operations?

[Alchemy]

Well the subject is pretty self expalnatory. I know student pilots are req'd to carry their logbooks on solo cross countries, however, I cannot find any reg that states they are req'd to carry them on a flight which never leaves the traffic pattern of the departure airport.

My CFI claims you must always carry your logbook w/ appropriate endorsements in the airplane as a student pilot conducting solo operations. I asked him to show me the reg that backs this up and neither of us can find a reg that substantiates this.....probably overlooking one somewhere.

-Thanks

 

[jtrain609]

Re: Are student pilots required to carry their logbooks w/ them during all solo operations

I would say that you would have to be able to prove to the FAA if you got ramp checked that you were still current in the type of operation you were undertaking. The best way to do this is with a logbook, so that's why you need it; to prove currency.

That would go beyond just student pilots though, it would go for everyone right?

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

[ QUOTE ]

My CFI claims you must always carry your logbook w/ appropriate endorsements in the airplane as a student pilot conducting solo operations. I asked him to show me the reg that backs this up and neither of us can find a reg that substantiates this.....probably overlooking one somewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]No. You can't find a reg to substantiate this because there isn't any. A student pilot needs to carry the logbook only when doing solo cross country flights. Your CFI is incorrect, but it's a fairly common error and I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[FL270]

John ...

Yes, you would use your logbook to prove currency if ramped, but you can do that later on ... once you have your PPL, don't carry your logbook anymore! Lock it up for safekeeping. If you get ramped, you can show the Feds anything they ask for that isn't required to be in your possession when you fly (aircraft maintenance logs, pilot logs, etc.) at a later time.

FL270

 

[Josh]

Re: Are student pilots required to carry their logbooks w/ them during all solo operations

You don't have to have your logbook with you, but you DO need to carry with you required endorsements for what you are doing. Be that a log book, or on some other scrap of paper or napkin your CFI wrote them on.

When under solo, you are endorsed every 90 days, and you can not fly solo without that endorsement. Basically the endorsement is your license to fly, so without it, anything you do solo is not valid.

Now, the regs don't say it has to be with you, but if ramp checked, at a field away from home, and your logs are in the car, what are you going to do? FAA guy isn't going to let you fly back to the home field to prove you have the endorsement.

If you don't like carrying original log books, photocopy required endorsement for whatever flying is being done.

 

[mtsu_av8er]

Re: Are student pilots required to carry their logbooks w/ them during all solo operations

[ QUOTE ]

That would go beyond just student pilots though, it would go for everyone right?

[/ QUOTE ]

No logbook carrying for this cat. It's just wayyyy to risky.

Case in point: I used to keep my flight bag in my car JUST IN CASE the opprtunity came along to go flying at the last minute. More than one time, I was able to scam a few flight hours because I was close by, with my gear. My girlfriend hounded me CONSTANTLY to take it out of my car, because it could get stolen....but I wouldn't listen. Finally, I took it out of the car so that she wouldn't complain anymore....

Well, in December, I got jacked, and the bastages stole just about everything in my car - including my backpack with schoolbooks (stupid crackheads didn't take my camera OR my scanner, OR the speakers in the back and amp....big dummies). Had I kept the flight bag in the car, it would be gone too!!!

Lesson to be learned!!!

 

[Alchemy]

Re: Are student pilots required to carry their logbooks w/ them during all solo operations

Why should a student have to carry their endorsments with them on a local flight unless the FAR's specifically say so? By that logic any pilot flying a complex, high performance, or high altitude airplane would be required to carry their logbook contating those endorsments with them on every flight. Every pilot would be required to carry proof that they had a BFR in the preceeding 24 calender months and every Instrument rated pilot would be required to carry proof that they'd completed 6 instrument approaches, holds, and intercepting/tracking courses within the preceeding 6 calender months.

Any FAA inspectors giving you a ramp check would be out of line busting you for not having your logbook if it isn't required by the FAR's.

 

[Josh]

Re: Are student pilots required to carry their logbooks w/ them during all solo operations

I still think what I said holds. When you're going to another field, it has to be brought along if you are a student pilot. Since cross country is anything to another airport. So, as long as you don't go to another airport and land, or go beyond 25 miles from the point of departure, it looks like it wouldn't be cc for a student pilot. In the pattern or around your hold field requires only your certificate, which is your medical, properly endorsed, and photo ID, as far as stuff that belongs to the pilot and not the plane.

61.51

(2) A student pilot must carry the following items in the aircraft on all solo cross-country flights as evidence of the required authorized instructor clearances and endorsements --
(i) Pilot logbook;
(ii) Student pilot certificate; and
(iii) Any other record required by this section.

and
61.87

(l) Limitations on student pilots operating an aircraft in solo flight. A student pilot may not operate an aircraft in solo flight unless that student pilot has received:

(1) An endorsement from an authorized instructor on his or her student pilot certificate for the specific make and model aircraft to be flown; and

(2) An endorsement in the student's logbook for the specific make and model aircraft to be flown by an authorized instructor, who gave the training within the 90 days preceding the date of the flight.

and
61.93

 

[Alchemy]

Re: Are student pilots required to carry their logbooks w/ them during all solo operations

Sure, a flight between any two airports could be considered a cross country and therefore require the student pilot to carry their endorsements on board. There's no question that endorsements must be carried on all student pilot solo cross countries, sorry if I didn't make that clear in my original post.

I just can't find anything in the FAR's stating that a student pilot must carry his/her logbook w/endorsements on a non-cross country flight. I think we can agree on that point.

 

[pilot602]

Re: Are student pilots required to carry their logbooks w/ them during all solo operations

[ QUOTE ]
61.87
(l) Limitations on student pilots operating an aircraft in solo flight. A student pilot may not operate an aircraft in solo flight unless that student pilot has received:
(1) An endorsement from an authorized instructor on his or her student pilot certificate for the specific make and model aircraft to be flown; and
(2) An endorsement in the student's logbook for the specific make and model aircraft to be flown by an authorized instructor, who gave the training within the 90 days preceding the date of the flight.


[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't say the logbook need be with the student. Only that the student has received the endorsement(s). BIG difference. Now, he or she must have the Sutdent Pilot Certificate/Medical with them which will have the/a Solo Flight endorsement on it.

 

[Josh]

Re: Are student pilots required to carry their logbooks w/ them during all solo operations

Right, that is why I gave both references. Shows you do need it for xc flights, but no mention of needing it for local.

There is the must present in a reasonable time, or whatever it says about documentation if requested by admin or authorized rep. But that means you'd be able to show the log book whenever it was easy. Not on the spot.

But again, once you are at another field, you'd have to have it solo.

Here's another one. Since you're dual, with the CFI in the plane, do you need to bring anything with you as a student pilot?

I have my take on it, we'll see what others think.

Josh

 

[EatSleepFly]

Re: Are student pilots required to carry their logbooks w/ them during all solo operations

[ QUOTE ]
Since you're dual, with the CFI in the plane, do you need to bring anything with you as a student pilot?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

 

[E_Dawg]

Re: Are student pilots required to carry their logbooks w/ them during all solo operations

You only need that when acting as PIC; so a student pilot (or anyone else reciving dual) wouldn't need it.

A new private with no additional endorsements could log PIC time when flying a P210 at FL200 with no credentials on board and no CFI in sight.

 

[Josh]

Re: Are student pilots required to carry their logbooks w/ them during all solo operations

It always seems weird a student doesn't need much to fly a plane alone. It is harder to be able to drive a car on the road in this state alone (though maybe not cheaper).

I'll bring up another one. Class B student pilot operations. Does that endorsement need to be in possesion? Would you do it, as a student pilot, without the endorsement in your pocket/flight bag?

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

Re: Are student pilots required to carry their logbooks w/ them during all solo operations

[ QUOTE ]
I'll bring up another one. Class B student pilot operations. Does that endorsement need to be in possesion? Would you do it, as a student pilot, without the endorsement in your pocket/flight bag?

[/ QUOTE ]How is this question different from the original one?

The student pilot needs the logbook if the pilot is going through Class B as part of a cross-country flight. The student pilot doesn't needs the logbook if the entry into Class B is not part of a cross-country flight.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

Re: Are student pilots required to carry their logbooks w/ them during all solo operations

[ QUOTE ]
Here's another one. Since you're dual, with the CFI in the plane, do you need to bring anything with you as a student pilot?

[/ QUOTE ]Other than for TSA purposes for commercial flights, AFAIK, passengers don't have to bring any documentation with them.