Are rwy centerline lights consider rwy environment?

Jumping back to Flying Corporal's original question, there's obviously some ambiguity on the issue! According to the FAA Instrument Written exam, you are correct. The centerline lights are not, by themselves, sufficient to descend below DA. Whether you choose to descend with only CLs in sight is up to you, you'll probably never be caught, and if you work hard enough you can read just about anything into the FARs. However, on a checkride of any kind, go missed.
 
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Jumping back to Flying Corporal's original question, there's obviously some ambiguity on the issue! According to the FAA Instrument Written exam, you are correct. The centerline lights are not, by themselves, sufficient to descend below DA.

[/ QUOTE ]Can you post the question? I searched through my copy of the Instrument and ATP knowledge test banks for "centerline", "light" and RCLS and can't find the question.
 
Well, the question is very simple:

You you're in the sim on an airline interview. Your copilot (your sim instructor) calls "rwy centerline lights in sight".

What do you do?

I believe American Eagle is doing it. The correct action is to call missed.

thanks all for your posts. But it's still not clear which one is right and why. I guess, just pick any answer and find good arguments to justify it.
 
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The only lights you saw at night were the centerline lights? What about the ALS? Visual GS indicator?

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I was just trying to bring up a personal experience, where the runway edge lights were covered and the runway centerline lights were clearly visible. To be a little more specific, it was daytime, the ALS was not on, VFR conditions after a snow storm.
But you are right, this does not bring anything up to the discussion, I still wonder if the runway centerline lights are part of the runway lights...
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Can you post the question? I searched through my copy of the Instrument and ATP knowledge test banks for "centerline", "light" and RCLS and can't find the question.

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I've gone back through the test prep book but can't find the question. I KNOW it was on there . . . wasn't it?
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I went to my local FSDO (Friends Since Day One) yesterday, according to them it is part of the runway lighting system.
Now, I was told that it was his (federal employee) interpretation, he did not give me though the official answer from the administrator. But, my guess is, if you get busted for that, the issue will stay locally, and will not go any further than discussing your knowledge of 91.175 in a small office...
 
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I believe American Eagle is doing it. The correct action is to call missed.

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Yeah, in the sim. I bet out on the line they would continue down.
 
say speed

That ,maybe, would work if you happened to have the event within the region of the of that FSDO, but even then it might not fly if the FSDO Chief had a different interp. I say again, if it doesn't come from the FAA Chief counsel, it is no better than an opinion you read off a public internet message board...
 
Well American Eagle is being safe. If you descend below and only have the center lights in sight, who knows what might be on the runway. Anything is possible....They do it for your safety. Id rather have that than actually descending and realising a problem, but as long as I get on the ground in one piece, im happy
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say speed

That ,maybe, would work if you happened to have the event within the region of the of that FSDO, but even then it might not fly if the FSDO Chief had a different interp. I say again, if it doesn't come from the FAA Chief counsel, it is no better than an opinion you read off a public internet message board...

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you are probably right, but I think we already the same answer from 2 different FSDO (the first one in FLA, if I remember right). We should maybe ask an official, to settle the question...
 
Say speed-

Do you think, perhaps, that American Eagle DID ask the legal counsel and so derived their interview question? Remember, airlines have a fast pipeline into FAA legal, should they choose to use it. Best to err on the conservative side in any event, if you want to write the FAA, the address is:

FAA, 800 Independence Ave. S.W.,
Washington, D.C. 20591,
Attention:AGC-200.
 
I am sure that American Eagle has a fast line to the FAA, just like any other airline. Unfortunately, as you surely know, the interviews are conducted by pilots, making up their own questions, and their own answers...
Not that an airline couldn't be wrong, but pilots are more likely to make mistakes. Those interview questions are not the responsibility of the company, if you believe you gave the correct answer to a question and they nailed you for it, too bad.
I don't think we can take for granted the answer to a particular question that came up during an interview...
 
Yeah don't give interviewers that much credit. Pilots are there on their days off, are given a quick 10-minute briefing and then thrown "to the wolves."

The briefing is mostly a list of "don'ts" -

Don't ask anything sexual, racial, or religious
Don't let them know how they are doing
Don't smile too much
Don't get us in to any legal trouble
etc
 
To the letter of the law, I don't think it is legal to land when the sole reference to the runway is the runway centerline lighting. I also believe it would be unsafe to land soley by reference to RCL.

Here is my reasoning. For those of you who have not yet had the thrill of a low visibility approach (600 to 1800 RVR), the runway lights and markings come into view very quickly with only a fraction of a second to view and identify what you are seeing.

If all that you are seeing are the runway centerline lights, it is a distinct possibility that your main gear are actually straddling the runway edge lights...the visibility too poor to even see the edge lights on the other side of the runway from your vantage point. Without some type of corrobating evidence to put the RCLs in perspective (TDZL, TDZ markings, Threshold lights, etc) it may not be readily apparent what you are actually viewing.

Additionally, to attempt a landing only referencing the RCL, it is impossible to gain perspective as to whether you are touching down in the touch down zone of the runway...a requirement for all other than Part 91 instrument approaches. 91.175 requires a pilot to have some type of threshold environment in sight (in absence of the actual runway). Without some type of way to identify the threshold, it is impossible to determine how far down the runway you will touchdown...until it is too late. For a bigger jet driver...touching down long could be the last mistake you'll ever make.

Caution: This is my opinion only...based on real world flying experience. The FAA , Legal Counsel, Judicial Court rulings, or Airline Interviewers may or may not agree with my assessment.
 
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