Are pilots flowing in aviate on the advertised timelines

[thehobbit]

I'm currently at a regional with no flows anywhere within a month of having 1000sic 121 time. I haven't done very well with interviews at the next step up and I'm thinking I need something in my back pocket in case things don't work out in my favor applying off the street. I am going to do some of those interview prep companies to get ready for any future interviews that I might get as I need that training and refinement.

Are pilots actually flowing to United when they hit 1600 pic 121 and four months in the program?

I would have that time in about two years if I left for commuteair and was accepted into aviate. With the problems with Boeing and Airbus it might be two years before hiring really kicks back up.

 

[DE727UPS]

How much longer would it take you to upgrade where you are at? I think that would help you get interviews.

 

[thehobbit]

How much longer would it take you to upgrade where you are at? I think that would help you get interviews.

It used to be as soon as you hit 1000 hours one could upgrade, but that is up in the air for the time being. I definitely need interview training and will be using cage mashall and such. I'm just thinking of going to a regional with a flow as a backup and upgrading there and on paper United aviate looks to be the fastest.

 

[FlyChicaga]

You have 1000 hours of SIC time and haven't done well at interviews? Can we get more information? Seems to me you need some more flight experience and more life experience to excel in your resume and your interviews. Sorry if that seems harsh but it is the reality of the situation. Can I ask how old you are?

Short answer pending more information: Unless you are 58 years old... chill... this isn't a race. It's a marathon.

 

[🦈💜]

I'm currently at a regional with no flows anywhere within a month of having 1000sic 121 time. I haven't done very well with interviews at the next step up and I'm thinking I need something in my back pocket in case things don't work out in my favor applying off the street. I am going to do some of those interview prep companies to get ready for any future interviews that I might get as I need that training and refinement.

Are pilots actually flowing to United when they hit 1600 pic 121 and four months in the program?

I would have that time in about two years if I left for commuteair and was accepted into aviate. With the problems with Boeing and Airbus it might be two years before hiring really kicks back up.

The "going to a major at 1000 hours 121 time" isn't particularly normal, historically, but you are getting interviews at least. The simple fact is that there are a LOT of people ahead of you who have twice (or more) your time.

Not that it really matters. Some people have very "well lubricated" profiles and just slide right in at 23. Others take a lot longer. Some people just aren't "next step" material ever.

Ultimately, things are pretty slow right now. If you can get to a place with a flow, cool. Otherwise just "keep on keeping on" and try to enjoy where you're at. The music can stop pretty easily in this line of work and then you find yourself there for the rest of your career.

 

[guywhoflies]

I'm currently at a regional with no flows anywhere within a month of having 1000sic 121 time. I haven't done very well with interviews at the next step up and I'm thinking I need something in my back pocket in case things don't work out in my favor applying off the street. I am going to do some of those interview prep companies to get ready for any future interviews that I might get as I need that training and refinement.

Are pilots actually flowing to United when they hit 1600 pic 121 and four months in the program?

I would have that time in about two years if I left for commuteair and was accepted into aviate. With the problems with Boeing and Airbus it might be two years before hiring really kicks back up.

Aviate has changed their requirements to transition to United numerous times. I would urge you to take anything you hear about Aviate with a pile of salt.

For example, I recently met a regional CA that had achieved the requirements to transition to United. He inquired about a class date with United and he was told December. There was a time when they guaranteed people would be in class at United within 90 days of meeting the requirements. That is no longer the case.

As far as interviewing, start building your stories now. Make note of any interesting/unusual/stressful situations you find yourself in while at work. Make sure you remember pertinent details; this is one way interviewers can tell if the story is truly your own. Practice telling your stories using the STAR format. (Not sure about other majors, but this is how the major you mentioned in your post likes the answers to be formatted).

Good luck!

 

[Hiboglossi]

I left CommuteAir almost 2 years ago, but when I was there pretty much nobody who was in any incarnation of the Aviate Program, or the CPP as it was called before that, got a class date at United as soon as they met the requirements. Usually it would be months or even years after they met the minimum requirements of the program.

Also, unless it has changed back, you should be aware that the Aviate program is not a true flow, but rather a preferential interview program; so there is no guarantee that you would be accepted into the program. There have been many different incarnations of the CPP/ Aviate program over the years, so even if it is a true flow again, that could easily change before you flow.

When they introduced it in 2016, it a guaranteed. Later it was a guaranteed interview, which had a pretty low success rate for a while. If you failed either the Hogan or the interview you had another chance after a year. In early 2022, it became a true flow, except you were not eligible for the flow if you had previously failed both or your interview attempts for the CPP or Aviate program. I was eligible because I didn't get past the Hogan either of my attempts at the old CPP in 2016-'17, and they didn't consider that a failed interview.

However, since I left CommuteAir, they ended the flow and changed it back to a preferential interview, and I believe they increased the flight time requirements. If I'm not mistaken they even changed the rules so that no flight time from before they introduced the latest version of the Aviate Program would count toward the requirements. I have not heard anything about it changing back to a true flow, and even if it has, with how many times they changed the rules in the past, I wouldn't count on it lasting.

Also, even when it was a true flow, a number of people were removed from the flow by the final review board, so even when it was a flow it was not much of a guarantee. I was one of those dho didn't make it past the final review of my records. No explanation of what rule I broke was given, but i suspect it was too many sick calls, as the program had some fairly stringent rules about how many times per year you could call in sick, and against calling in sick at all in certain situations.

If you're looking for a true flow, you'd be better off going to one of the American wholly owned regionals, if they are hiring- though I have heard their flow may have some of the same issues with people being excluded from it for not flying while sick. I have never worked at any if the AA wholly owneds so I can't say for sure. And as others have pointed out, the current reality is that hiring is pretty slow at the majors right now, albeit expected to pick up this year, so you probably aren't going to escape the regionals as easily as so many did in the early 2020s.

 

[derg]

The challenge with a lot of the programs like this was that they were reactionary fix to a temporary situation.

There were a unique handful of circumstances that led to the 2022/2023 frenzy that don’t exist at the point. I’d certainly say if the program is a great fit for you, good. If it’s not, don’t believe the hype but whatever choice you make, plan for more “traditional” trek to a mainline cockpit.

 

[Baronman]

I'm currently at a regional with no flows anywhere within a month of having 1000sic 121 time. I haven't done very well with interviews at the next step up and I'm thinking I need something in my back pocket in case things don't work out in my favor applying off the street. I am going to do some of those interview prep companies to get ready for any future interviews that I might get as I need that training and refinement.

Are pilots actually flowing to United when they hit 1600 pic 121 and four months in the program?

I would have that time in about two years if I left for commuteair and was accepted into aviate. With the problems with Boeing and Airbus it might be two years before hiring really kicks back up.

Haven't done well at getting interviews or haven't done well actually in the hot seat?

 

[MikeD]

The challenge with a lot of the programs like this was that they were reactionary fix to a temporary situation.

There were a unique handful of circumstances that led to the 2022/2023 frenzy that don’t exist at the point. I’d certainly say if the program is a great fit for you, good. If it’s not, don’t believe the hype but whatever choice you make, plan for more “traditional” trek to a mainline cockpit.

So what you’re saying, is expect to be launching out of and recovering to KGYR in your Varney callsign bird, and spending much time in the Stanfield stack, for quite some time……along with the rest of the myriad of flightschool callsigns jamming up the area around here.

 

[derg]

Ehh, pretty much.

 

[thehobbit]

I left CommuteAir almost 2 years ago, but when I was there pretty much nobody who was in any incarnation of the Aviate Program, or the CPP as it was called before that, got a class date at United as soon as they met the requirements. Usually it would be months or even years after they met the minimum requirements of the program.

Also, unless it has changed back, you should be aware that the Aviate program is not a true flow, but rather a preferential interview program; so there is no guarantee that you would be accepted into the program. There have been many different incarnations of the CPP/ Aviate program over the years, so even if it is a true flow again, that could easily change before you flow.

When they introduced it in 2016, it a guaranteed. Later it was a guaranteed interview, which had a pretty low success rate for a while. If you failed either the Hogan or the interview you had another chance after a year. In early 2022, it became a true flow, except you were not eligible for the flow if you had previously failed both or your interview attempts for the CPP or Aviate program. I was eligible because I didn't get past the Hogan either of my attempts at the old CPP in 2016-'17, and they didn't consider that a failed interview.

However, since I left CommuteAir, they ended the flow and changed it back to a preferential interview, and I believe they increased the flight time requirements. If I'm not mistaken they even changed the rules so that no flight time from before they introduced the latest version of the Aviate Program would count toward the requirements. I have not heard anything about it changing back to a true flow, and even if it has, with how many times they changed the rules in the past, I wouldn't count on it lasting.

Also, even when it was a true flow, a number of people were removed from the flow by the final review board, so even when it was a flow it was not much of a guarantee. I was one of those dho didn't make it past the final review of my records. No explanation of what rule I broke was given, but i suspect it was too many sick calls, as the program had some fairly stringent rules about how many times per year you could call in sick, and against calling in sick at all in certain situations.

If you're looking for a true flow, you'd be better off going to one of the American wholly owned regionals, if they are hiring- though I have heard their flow may have some of the same issues with people being excluded from it for not flying while sick. I have never worked at any if the AA wholly owneds so I can't say for sure. And as others have pointed out, the current reality is that hiring is pretty slow at the majors right now, albeit expected to pick up this year, so you probably aren't going to escape the regionals as easily as so many did in the early 2020s.

Thank you for the detailed answer to the aviate program. So United is just moving the goal posts as they see fit and it's all advertising for aviate then. I'll stick where I'm at then and upgrade when it becomes available.

 

[thehobbit]

Haven't done well at getting interviews or haven't done well actually in the hot seat?

I've had an interview with netjets, an ULLC and did a meet and greet with another major that I never got to the second part of the interview due to them cancelling because of the lack of deliveries from Boeing. I'm going to get interview prep with cage marshall and raven and go from there. It would have been nice to have a flow in my back pocket but it sounds like it's better to hunt your own lunch.

 

[Sculprit]

In my opinion it sounds like where you’re currently at is the best place to be if UAL is your goal.

You mentioned no flows at your current shop, so I assume you work for a non UAX carrier? Being at a regional not associated with a major partner you want to be employed at typically works well.

You’re close to upgrade, get that pic time.

Aside from that you’ve already mentioned you’re going to try to improve your interview skills by using a prep service, that’s awesome.

Only other things I would add is to start networking. Hit up some aviation conferences. Work in your COO if possible, trading center or whatever other extracurricular positions are available to you. Hopefully between all that you’ll find yourself with a CJO at UAL or wherever your desired destination may be in the near future.

 

[jhugz]

It's always been United's goal to have Aviate be the quickest and best pathway into a United Flight Deck. Over the past couple of years, Aviate hurt you vs. helped just due to the obscene number of pilots that were being hired. Seeing the current hiring environment they have a chance to make their goal a reality. It's always been my opinion that joining a pathway program can't hurt. If you want out, you get out, and then try again in a year as a traditional applicant.

 

[Sculprit]

Work in your CPO if possible, training center or whatever other extracurricular positions are available to you.

 

[killbilly]

I checked with a couple of guys I know who are in the Aviate program currently.

When I was there all you had to do was sign on the dotted line and you were in the program. United did in fact move the goal posts several times over the course of the next year until it reached the current Configuration, however they also purged a large number of people from the program who had signed up.

It seems that after they had some spectacular flame outs, (conclusion on my part, not official ) they re-instituted an interview set up as they began removing people from the program. I don’t know what the removal criteria was. And I don’t think they told the people who were removed what it was either.

The guys I talked to are captains currently and they are not sure if the schedule is holding because movement is somewhat murky right now - they aren’t sure if they will move on within a few months of hitting their time or not. But they did survive the purges, so there is still some hope.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I'm currently at a regional with no flows anywhere within a month of having 1000sic 121 time. I haven't done very well with interviews at the next step up and I'm thinking I need something in my back pocket in case things don't work out in my favor applying off the street. I am going to do some of those interview prep companies to get ready for any future interviews that I might get as I need that training and refinement.

Are pilots actually flowing to United when they hit 1600 pic 121 and four months in the program?

I would have that time in about two years if I left for commuteair and was accepted into aviate. With the problems with Boeing and Airbus it might be two years before hiring really kicks back up.

IMO I’d work on why the two interviews didn’t go well, and then work on that for the next interview. These flows are a gimmick that work when the industry is desperate for hiring, like it was in 2022/23. Once the tide turns, there is zero guarantee of anything. Say you start at an Aviate regional now. What’s to stop them increasing that 1600 TPIC to 2,000? 2500? 3000+?


These programs were created to staff the wholly owned regionals, first and foremost. Moving them to the mainline was an afterthought. Now that hiring slowed, they have no reason to move people up to mainline.


It’s all supply and demand, and it’s not 2022/23 anymore.

 

[MikeD]

IMO I’d work on why the two interviews didn’t go well, and then work on that for the next interview. These flows are a gimmick that work when the industry is desperate for hiring, like it was in 2022/23. Once the tide turns, there is zero guarantee of anything. Say you start at an Aviate regional now. What’s to stop them increasing that 1600 TPIC to 2,000? 2500? 3000+?


These programs were created to staff the wholly owned regionals, first and foremost. Moving them to the mainline was an afterthought. Now that hiring slowed, they have no reason to move people up to mainline.


It’s all supply and demand, and it’s not 2022/23 anymore.

Aviate’s flow, is probably to staff Aviate with CFIs, so they can jam up the low level area below the B-shelf between the Estrellas and South Mountain.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Such a liability issue too. Imagine a virtual major airline had an Aviate-type program. And then some CFI and student(s) crash a Cessna in that program. Fatalities and maybe 1 survives. Can you imagine the families? They would sue, and guess who will be getting sued as a party? The major airline partner.



This is why Gulfstream Academy did away with their 0-250 hr student program. They had a student who was in that training program, took his wife and 2 kids up, ended up crashing (I think a midair). All dead. Lawsuits involved. In the end, Gulfstream became a program for those who already had Comm/Inst/ME and 250 hrs. They pulled out of the 0-250 hr market.