Are banks loaning money for flight training these days?

Maybe that's the problem with our banking institutions ...

"I have no degree and no real job experience, but I'd like a $70k loan to go into a profession that is laying more people off than it's hiring, and where my first few years will be spent making a fast food salary."

"Just sign here"

:banghead:
 
Just my 2 cents here, but I think it is absolute MADNESS to borrow the kind of money that flight training requires at rates around 10% (or higher) for the kind of job prospects you will end up with.

I believe there are only 3 reasonable options:

1) Save all the money and pay for it yourself. Might take 5 years (or more or less) depending on your current earning power. Don't have the patience? Remember, patience is a virtue. How much do you want to be a pilot anyway? Good things come to those who wait.

2) Go to a community college/university flight school where you can get federal student loans. They won't cover all of the costs, so you will still need to provide other funds, but it will help.

3) Go to the military.

Please don't finance your flight training with credit cards. You are setting yourself up for future financial disaster.
 
Considering we didn't get paid as expected at PDT today because PNC bank didn't have the capitol to fund our wire transfers I'd say loans of any kind will be pretty hard to come by for a while..
 
Just my 2 cents here, but I think it is absolute MADNESS to borrow the kind of money that flight training requires at rates around 10% (or higher) for the kind of job prospects you will end up with.

I believe there are only 3 reasonable options:

1) Save all the money and pay for it yourself. Might take 5 years (or more or less) depending on your current earning power. Don't have the patience? Remember, patience is a virtue. How much do you want to be a pilot anyway? Good things come to those who wait.

2) Go to a community college/university flight school where you can get federal student loans. They won't cover all of the costs, so you will still need to provide other funds, but it will help.

3) Go to the military.

Please don't finance your flight training with credit cards. You are setting yourself up for future financial disaster.

Learning to fly is no different than any other college major or trade.

You are not guaranteed a job with any degree. You can spend 4 years in Undergrad 3 in Law school and not pass the Bar.How many MBA's were just put on the streets with this financial crisis? What about Real Estate professionals and Financial analysts?

I understand a flying career is not always stable, but honestly what career is any more? The days of employer/employee loyalty are long gone. We are all seen as numbers, even at the smallest of firms, that take away from the bottom line. If a company comes along that can do your job just as well for cheaper, you will be outsourced. Then you can go reapply at that company for a lower salary doing the same job.

Borrowing at 10%> is not a great financial move but that is where we are. Banks do not want to loan money. Getting an education these days, in anything, is extremely expensive.

As I see it there are two options.

1. Work an unskilled labor/retail job and hope to work yourself up to manager.

2. Deal with the current financial situation and find a way to get the education you desire. If that education happens to be flying an airplane then so be it.

I dont see the point in waiting 5 years to begin your education. You have no idea what the situation will be in 5 years. Fuel could be twice as high, training could cost twice as much and you would need to save another 5 years to have the funds to finish. The economy will rebound, if it doesnt then we all will have much larger issues to deal with than debt, like will the mold on this bread kill me if I eat it.

Get the training done during the down time. Work any job you can to pay down the debt while flying jobs are hard to come by. When possible get a job flying, build your hours then get a spot towards the front of the line in the next airline hiring wave.
 
Learning to fly is no different than any other college major or trade.

You are not guaranteed a job with any degree. You can spend 4 years in Undergrad 3 in Law school and not pass the Bar.How many MBA's were just put on the streets with this financial crisis? What about Real Estate professionals and Financial analysts?

I understand a flying career is not always stable, but honestly what career is any more? The days of employer/employee loyalty are long gone. We are all seen as numbers, even at the smallest of firms, that take away from the bottom line. If a company comes along that can do your job just as well for cheaper, you will be outsourced. Then you can go reapply at that company for a lower salary doing the same job.

Borrowing at 10%> is not a great financial move but that is where we are. Banks do not want to loan money. Getting an education these days, in anything, is extremely expensive.

As I see it there are two options.

1. Work an unskilled labor/retail job and hope to work yourself up to manager.

2. Deal with the current financial situation and find a way to get the education you desire. If that education happens to be flying an airplane then so be it.

I dont see the point in waiting 5 years to begin your education. You have no idea what the situation will be in 5 years. Fuel could be twice as high, training could cost twice as much and you would need to save another 5 years to have the funds to finish. The economy will rebound, if it doesnt then we all will have much larger issues to deal with than debt, like will the mold on this bread kill me if I eat it.

Get the training done during the down time. Work any job you can to pay down the debt while flying jobs are hard to come by. When possible get a job flying, build your hours then get a spot towards the front of the line in the next airline hiring wave.

Yes, but flying has relatively fewer transferable skills. Don't get me wrong - communicating with people, managing logistics - all of that is great experience, but when my wife decides to leave the law, she'll have years of general business and executive writing experience to take with her. It doesn't help that there is probably a bias against pilots in that potential employers probably don't see the value of the training like they should.
 
Yes, but flying has relatively fewer transferable skills. Don't get me wrong - communicating with people, managing logistics - all of that is great experience, but when my wife decides to leave the law, she'll have years of general business and executive writing experience to take with her. It doesn't help that there is probably a bias against pilots in that potential employers probably don't see the value of the training like they should.

That might be the case. But the point of a degree or skill is to apply it to a particular career. Not how it applies to a future career should you choose to change paths.

Education is not cheap, regardless what you choose to persue. It is not going to get any cheaper, unless it is socialized :sarcasm: *sort of*. Flying is no different. You could sit around waitying 3 years saving to avoid taking out a loan and in that time costs could go up by 20%-50%. You would not have saved any money and would have lost time.

Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating going out and getting an 80k loan to go to a factory. But I dont see any problem with taking out 25k. Work full time, fly Sat and Sun and pack away as much money as you can. That 25k should be able to atleast get you your PPL and IR with some time building towards your Comm. Then use the 5-10k you have saved over the year working full time to finish your Comm and get your CFI and CFII.
 
Education is not cheap, regardless what you choose to persue. It is not going to get any cheaper, unless it is socialized :sarcasm: *sort of*. Flying is no different. You could sit around waitying 3 years saving to avoid taking out a loan and in that time costs could go up by 20%-50%. You would not have saved any money and would have lost time.

Errrrrr pump the brakes. I am in IT and although I did take some courses to get where I'm at, my education after high school didn't even cost $20,000 in monetary figures. I have plenty of associates and friends in other occupations that spent less than $30,000 on their education.

P.S. - None of us took socialized classes or social studies either:)
 
Learning to fly is no different than any other college major or trade.

I must respectfully disagree.

You are not guaranteed a job with any degree.

If you make an argument of absolutes (guaranteed 100% to find a job vs. guaranteed 100% NOT to find a job) then of course you are correct. But when you consider everything in between, different professions/degrees have extremely variable marketability. There are way more unemployed pilots and music majors than there are nurses or high school math teachers.

You can spend 4 years in Undergrad 3 in Law school and not pass the Bar.

Which you can then take again, just like pilots who fail checkrides can re-try. They still have a J.D., it's not like they have to go back to law school. (They just have to wait a bit longer than a pilot would. But once they pass, they are way more employable than a pilot who just passed their Comm AMEL/Instrument; or even ATP AMEL for that matter.)

How many MBA's were just put on the streets with this financial crisis?

That's an good question. I'd be surprised if it's more than the amount of pilots that have been furloughed in the last year.

I understand a flying career is not always stable, but honestly what career is any more?

Just about any health care professional (nurses, doctors, pharmacists, etc.), high school math & science teachers, and law enforcement come to mind. And before people start jumping in with "I knew this doctor who had their job disappear" stories, remember I am arguing that they are relatively stable compared to a flying career. Matt13C and I both agree that no degree or profession is perfect.

Getting an education these days, in anything, is extremely expensive.

In the non-flying world there are way more scholarships available. Different schools have different prices, and in-state tuition is usually a great bargain. Graduate education is completely free in some disciplines, and again, financial support is much easier to find than for flight training. Again, I'm not arguing that it's all cheap and easy, but there are other options that sure beat the pants off of flying for affordability and subsequent employability.

When possible get a job flying, build your hours then get a spot towards the front of the line in the next airline hiring wave.

That's what I'm doing! I love flying.
 
Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating going out and getting an 80k loan to go to a factory. But I dont see any problem with taking out 25k. Work full time, fly Sat and Sun and pack away as much money as you can. That 25k should be able to atleast get you your PPL and IR with some time building towards your Comm. Then use the 5-10k you have saved over the year working full time to finish your Comm and get your CFI and CFII.

30-35k is pretty cheap to get through CFII. It's doable, but I think lots of folks spend way more. (I know I did.)

If I were to distill my thoughts into one sentence, it would be:
Pay for as much of your training up front as you can, borrow as little as you can at as low an interest rate as possible, and if nothing else, make sure you've honestly assessed your ability to pay back the loans you do end up taking out.
 
I could be wrong on this but I would assume that it may be easier to get a loan for flying if you go to a flight school that is affiliated with a community college or a university. Then the loan is by US Dept of Ed. There are several flight schools that are through a college throughout the US.

Lol...where, and where in AZ? I know that UVSC does, but I'm not moving to UT for that!
 
Considering we didn't get paid as expected at PDT today because PNC bank didn't have the capitol to fund our wire transfers I'd say loans of any kind will be pretty hard to come by for a while..
Did anyone else notice this post?!?!? That is a terrifying statement of our current economic situation.:panic:
 
That might be the case. But the point of a degree or skill is to apply it to a particular career. Not how it applies to a future career should you choose to change paths.

Education is not cheap, regardless what you choose to persue. It is not going to get any cheaper, unless it is socialized :sarcasm: *sort of*.


True, but I didn't get a political science degree because I wanted to work in politics - I got it because I wanted to learn how people think and form opinions. I was fortunate to find a job that coincided with this knowledge I had acquired. I went to school to learn something - finding a job was secondary.

My point was that pilot ratings do not transfer to other jobs quite so easily. Even an English degree opens up hundreds of different potential jobs. Flying pretty much opens one - and if they're not hiring, you're screwed.

We do have socialized education - do you think what we pay in tuition matches demand? As long as colleges can reject qualified applicants, technically the tuition is too cheap.
 
I knew this was a touchy subject on this forum and was not going to say anything.

It seemed to me that a large number of people say never take any debt out for flying. I agree that a huge amount of debt is bad. 80k for a job that starts out paying 20k a year does not make any sense. Keeping the debt to a minimum while finding the best deal on flight training you can is a different story.

Flyinguitar, the point I was trying to make is nothing is certain. Yes, there are careers that give a greater amount of job security than being a pilot. There are others that give less.
 
...the point I was trying to make is nothing is certain. Yes, there are careers that give a greater amount of job security than being a pilot. There are others that give less.

True nothing is certain, but certain things have a better chance at happening. I'd rather take the high percentage lay-up than the lower percentage 20 footer.
 
Anyone care to drag up the loan rant?

Nope.

If people want to go $50K into debt and not be able to afford both their rent and loan payments, it's not my problem.

I've tried to get through to them but they insist on pissing away their financial futures in order to get their ratings so they can qualify for a non-existent job. Airlines are furloughing. They're cutting jobs. And you want to take on debt so that you can be qualified for a job that doesn't exist?

Tell you what. Folks who want to do this just give me $1K. I'll kick you in the nads until you bleed.

It'll hurt you just as much and you'll pay $49K before interest less.
 
Maybe that's the problem with our banking institutions ...

"I have no degree and no real job experience, but I'd like a $70k loan to go into a profession that is laying more people off than it's hiring, and where my first few years will be spent making a fast food salary."

"Just sign here"

:banghead:
see thats the problem. too many people just want to be airline pilots, and are willing to do it for nothing. there are plenty of other jobs out there thay pay decent enough, just harder to find. but thats ok with me, that makes it slightly easier for me to find on of those jobs because i don't have to fight all the people with SJS ;) now i can't disagree with the earning potential at the airlines, even a good regional you can top out making a decent living. maybe it is just me but i would think it would be sweet to make 150K a year, but i don't need to, so if i can make enough to support my family and live comfortably then i am happy.
 
I've tried to get through to them but they insist on pissing away their financial futures in order to get their ratings so they can qualify for a non-existent job. Airlines are furloughing. They're cutting jobs. And you want to take on debt so that you can be qualified for a job that doesn't exist?

Airlines are furloughing now, but for those of us without any ratings, don't you think it might be a good time to start? I figure it will take 5 or 6 months to get the ratings, and then I'll spend at least a year instructing to build time. Who's to say that things won't be picking up in a year and a half or two?
 
With the $700 billion deal dead for now, are banks reluctant to loan money for flight training? I'm planning (been saying that for 2 years now) to move back to the US in March, but am really worried about the economic situation. I've also taken a huge hit on the exchange rate between the US dollar and Korean won (down 21% this year). The Korean currency is at a 5 year low, and since I have all my money saved up here, it doesn't really make sense to convert it to dollars and lose as much as I have. Therefore, I'm weighing whether or not to take out a a loan in the US and keep my money in Korea until the exchange rate becomes more favorable.

I just got another loan from "Pilot Finance", didn't have problem with that, so my guess is they are..I don't know how selective they are though, my credit is good.
 
Back
Top