approach briefing suggestions?

aviategw

aviategw

Well-Known Member
Going to the well of JC knowledge again...I think I probably owe MikeD for at least an hour's worth of instruction.

Anyone have any suggestions on an approach briefing mnemonic?

I'm briefing my approaches, but I need a better way to teach someone how to brief an approach for my CFII checkride.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Going to the well of JC knowledge again...I think I probably owe MikeD for at least an hour's worth of instruction.

Anyone have any suggestions on an approach briefing mnemonic?

I'm briefing my approaches, but I need a better way to teach someone how to brief an approach for my CFII checkride.

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Here's one. And be advised, there's many acronyms you can choose one. So long as they brief what you need briefed, just pick one.

W-HOLDS

W eather
H olding instructions
O btain clearance
L etdown plate review
D escent check complete
S peed appropriate for segment of approach you're on

For let down plate review, I just start briefing from the top down: freqs, Plan view, profile view, minimums, missed approach or climbout instructions, any timing needed, the airport diagram box insofar as how I'm expecting to approach the runway, and finally MSAs/ESAs.
 
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Anyone have any suggestions on an approach briefing nemonic?


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M-issed approach instructions
A-Initial Altitude
R-ate of descent
T-ime from FAF to MAP
H-Final Approach Course Heading
A-ltitude Decision Height/MDA
 
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Anyone have any suggestions on an approach briefing nemonic?


[/ QUOTE ]

M-issed approach instructions
A-Initial Altitude
R-ate of descent
T-ime from FAF to MAP
H-Final Approach Course Heading
A-ltitude Decision Height/MDA

[/ QUOTE ]

Martha, Martha, Martha!
 
here's the ones I use. I could not find this earlier:

[ QUOTE ]
Prepping for my IFR Checkride so here we go:
IFR (When to Report): MATURESCAN
Missed Approach
Altitude Changes
TAS changes of 5%/10kts whatever is greater
Unable to climb/descend 500/fpm
Reaching a hold/FAF
Exiting a hold/FAF
Safe (unforecast wx)
Comm failure
Aviation Failure
Navigation Failure

Position Reporting Requirements IPATTENS
Identification
Place
Altitude
Time
Type (aircraft)
Eta at next checkpoint
Next checkpoint after that
remarkS

Approach Self Briefing - MARTHA
Missed Approach Procedures
initial Altitude
Rate of Descent
Time (FAF to MAP/DH)
Heading - (Inbound Course)
missed approach Altitude (DH/MAP)

[/ QUOTE ]
 
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Anyone have any suggestions on an approach briefing mnemonic?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're looking for a straight up approach brief (not reporting point stuff, radio out procedures, holds, etc) this is what I use:

A TIS
S tack (set nav and comm radios, DME, GPS, and ADF)
A pproach brief (see below)
P re-landing checklist

Here's the Approach brief for above:

M arker Beacons (tested and on)
I dentify (navaid, approach plate)
C ourse set
E ntry (vectors, procedure turn, hold, arc, etc)
A ltitudes (step downs, MDA, DH)
T ime (time if GS lost or for identifying MAP)
M issed Approach point (identify on plate)
M issed Approach instructions (brief instructions out loud)
 
Jepp spent tons of R&D money developing (and NACO copied) the "briefing strip" format so that pilots would have a quick and easy way to brief an approach. And you're looking for an almost unintelligible mnemonic? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Other than the number on the strip, weather-instruments-radios is about all I can think of that's needed. (Actually, that one is part of the WIRE mnemonic. The "E" ends up being something like "enroute" or "environment" - a mnemonic looking for a meaning)
 
[ QUOTE ]
Jepp spent tons of R&D money developing (and NACO copied) the "briefing strip" format so that pilots would have a quick and easy way to brief an approach. And you're looking for an almost unintelligible mnemonic? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif



[/ QUOTE ]

Agree fully. Brief from top to bottom just like the new format suggests.
 
I use
N - NOTAMS
A - Approach brief, standard top to bottom or left to right on the new jepps
T - Terrain features
S - Special considerations

Not saying that it's right or the best, it's just what I generally use.
 
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Jepp spent tons of R&D money developing (and NACO copied) the "briefing strip" format so that pilots would have a quick and easy way to brief an approach.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another one of the reasons I love Jepp plates. Unfortunately, not ALL of the approaches are in the briefing strip format. My shoulders sag when I get an approach that is still in the old format. I still like using the acronym in case I get interrupted by a radio call or traffic during the approach brief. It's just easier for me to remember which "letter" I was on than where I was on the strip.
 
This airplane, that runway, from an ILS. Any questions?
wink.gif
 
A-ny
N-umskull
C-an
A-lways
M-ake
M-istakes
tongue.gif

Approach (ie ILS 15 CHS)
Nav Aid Frequencies
Courses
Altitudes
Missed Approach Point
Misse Approach Procedure


That's what I've been taught and have been using it ever since. The order pretty much follows the way Jeppesen's plates are laid out...
 
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That's what I've been taught and have been using it ever since. The order pretty much follows the way Jeppesen's plates are laid out...

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So you've got an acronym to help remember a format that's printed right in front of you on the Jepps and NACOs? Doesn't that go into the department of redundancy?

grin.gif
 
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So you've got an acronym to help remember a format that's printed right in front of you on the Jepps and NACOs? Doesn't that go into the department of redundancy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, most aircraft systems are redundant, why can't the pilot be redundant?
smile.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
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So you've got an acronym to help remember a format that's printed right in front of you on the Jepps and NACOs? Doesn't that go into the department of redundancy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, most aircraft systems are redundant, why can't the pilot be redundant?
smile.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Cool!
grin.gif
 
I think that If I go into a CFII checkride with only the advice to read the plate from the 'top to the bottom', the DPE won't be all that impressed. I think that most, if not all, of the NACO procedures have been redone into the format that copies the Jepp plates, but they still aren't standardized. In some instances, the information appears in different places on the plates. Small differences, but the profile view and the airport diagram alternate where they appear on the page.

What I'm cheifly looking for with an acronym is a way to standardize my briefing for the each approach.

I don't have too much of a problem with redundancy.
 
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I think that If I go into a CFII checkride with only the advice to read the plate from the 'top to the bottom', the DPE won't be all that impressed.

[/ QUOTE ]What makes you think that? Won't be impressed with teaching to do it right?

Wait. I take that back. It takes all kinds. I sent a student for a private pilot checkride. The student reviewed the aircraft logs, discovered what no one else had - that the last annual hadn't been endorsed properly, arranged for another airplane, sat down for the oral, explained what he found wrong with the old airplane, and discussed airworthiness requirements in detail. He passed, but the DE later asked me "How come he hasn't memorized TOMATO FLAMES?"

So have a list of all the mnemonics you can find ready if catch phrases are more important to your DE than knowledge.

Here's another totally useless one for your collection:

PAIN CALL:

P - Position. Where are you in relation to the IAF?
This will help you anticipate what ATC will be asking
you to do.
A - ATIS (or AWOS): This should give you a clue what
approach you'll be getting, or which one you want to
ask for.
I - Instruments. Altimeter to the setting you just got
off the ATIS, DG to the compass.
N - Nav radios. Sub-checklist: TITS. Tune, Identify,
Twist (OBS), Set markers (for an ILS).
C - Comm radios. If you've got flip-flops you should
be able to set frequencies to get you all the way to
the FBO. If not, at least have tower on the 2nd radio
before you hit the IAF.
A - Approach. Brief the rest of the approach. What
are the minimums? What's the missed? What other
altitudes will you be flying? etc. etc.
L - Landing checklist. GUMPS, or whatever you like.
L - Listen. (for instructions from ATC.)

Don't ask where I found this piece of crap. There was some contest for the worst aviation mnemonic and this won hands down. The pilot who made it up eventually forgot to aviate and navigate while trying to remember what the heck it meant an flew into a mountain.

<<Sigh>>
 
[ QUOTE ]

So you've got an acronym to help remember a format that's printed right in front of you on the Jepps and NACOs? Doesn't that go into the department of redundancy?

grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I have spend 12 years in the naval nuclear power program... redundancy is the name ofthe game...
grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think that If I go into a CFII checkride with only the advice to read the plate from the 'top to the bottom', the DPE won't be all that impressed.

[/ QUOTE ]What makes you think that? Won't be impressed with teaching to do it right?

Wait. I take that back. It takes all kinds. I sent a student for a private pilot checkride. The student reviewed the aircraft logs, discovered what no one else had - that the last annual hadn't been endorsed properly, arranged for another airplane, sat down for the oral, explained what he found wrong with the old airplane, and discussed airworthiness requirements in detail. He passed, but the DE later asked me "How come he hasn't memorized TOMATO FLAMES?"

So have a list of all the mnemonics you can find ready if catch phrases are more important to your DE than knowledge.

Here's another totally useless one for your collection:

PAIN CALL:

P - Position. Where are you in relation to the IAF?
This will help you anticipate what ATC will be asking
you to do.
A - ATIS (or AWOS): This should give you a clue what
approach you'll be getting, or which one you want to
ask for.
I - Instruments. Altimeter to the setting you just got
off the ATIS, DG to the compass.
N - Nav radios. Sub-checklist: TITS. Tune, Identify,
Twist (OBS), Set markers (for an ILS).
C - Comm radios. If you've got flip-flops you should
be able to set frequencies to get you all the way to
the FBO. If not, at least have tower on the 2nd radio
before you hit the IAF.
A - Approach. Brief the rest of the approach. What
are the minimums? What's the missed? What other
altitudes will you be flying? etc. etc.
L - Landing checklist. GUMPS, or whatever you like.
L - Listen. (for instructions from ATC.)

Don't ask where I found this piece of crap. There was some contest for the worst aviation mnemonic and this won hands down. The pilot who made it up eventually forgot to aviate and navigate while trying to remember what the heck it meant an flew into a mountain.

<<Sigh>>

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Midlife,

Amen, brother. Good response. I've seen too many studs that are so swamped with acronyms, they forget which ones go where, and even what they mean. Like you infer, the NACO/Jepp charts came out with the format they did specifically to make briefing them easier...and in an organized format. Why make stuff harder than it has to be, people?

KISS principle. Learn it, live it.

As an IP, I'm not interested in a studs style points, I'm interested in the substance.....what he knows, if he's procedurally correct, and exercises good judgement.
 
I think what it comes down to is acronyms work for some people, and they don't work for others. If they work use 'em, if you get confused, for the love of god use something else. I have no problem with acronyms or dropping them in the correct situation, so I find they help me immensely. If it's alphabet soup to someone else, I'm sure they have a way of remembering that wouldn't work for me.
 
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