I like to gamble, but if App says the GS is out, I am using loc mins.
App says GS out, appears to be working...
- Thread starter kiloalpha
- Start date
I like to gamble, but if App says the GS is out, I am using loc mins.
clestudentpilot
Well-Known Member
Is that the one about 3 years ago on runway 28? I know I read the report, and it was on the ATIS that the GS was OTS, and when cleared, the controller said "cleared ILS runway 28 approach, GS out of service". From what I remember there was a lot of snow covering the GS. Also, even flying to the DH (not the MDA for the LOC), the crew lost the runway after DH, but still didn't go missed
Trip7
Well-Known Member
correcto!
TXaviator
Well-Known Member
similar scenario i thought of recently:
what do you do when...
you get to an airport to shoot the ILS in IMC/rain/night/garbage and you find out... hmm oh crap my GS needle seems to be inop....
aaaand since you were departing podunkville airport, they didnt have a full book of charts to buy, so you just airnav'd the relevant one....
and the other approach direction of the ILS does have a LOC approach, but you dont have the required ADF or DME (but you have a vfr gps...)....
...curious what you guys would do!
possible options thought of:
-go to alternate...but that needs an ILS also...since plates arent available at podunk airport and you just printed out the ILS...and your GS is discovered to be inop anyway....
-estimate a rate of descent, on the conservative side, and see if you end up breaking out
-try the localizer from the other direction with the intention of circling, using the vfr gps as dme
-flying until you run out of fuel in any given direction
what do you do when...
you get to an airport to shoot the ILS in IMC/rain/night/garbage and you find out... hmm oh crap my GS needle seems to be inop....
aaaand since you were departing podunkville airport, they didnt have a full book of charts to buy, so you just airnav'd the relevant one....
and the other approach direction of the ILS does have a LOC approach, but you dont have the required ADF or DME (but you have a vfr gps...)....
...curious what you guys would do!
possible options thought of:
-go to alternate...but that needs an ILS also...since plates arent available at podunk airport and you just printed out the ILS...and your GS is discovered to be inop anyway....
-estimate a rate of descent, on the conservative side, and see if you end up breaking out
-try the localizer from the other direction with the intention of circling, using the vfr gps as dme
-flying until you run out of fuel in any given direction
400A
New Member
Purely from a "I just fracked myself into a corner" POV. I would go with the VFR GPS and try to circle. Blindly following a descent rate towards the ground in the hopes of breaking out is a sure way to become "one with the earth".
In the land of reality you never blast off IFR without the appropriate approach plates and you never blast off needing an alternate that doesn't have the required WX so you can get in.
CaptBill
Well-Known Member
I have seen very believable GS indications with the GS out of service. I remember years ago missing the OTS GS on the ATIS and found myself struggling to figure out why the approach didn't look or feel right. I finally figured out the problem but there was 5 to 10 seconds of major confusion - which is 10 seconds too many.
If ATIS or App Control reports "GS Out" then consider it out - period.
If ATIS or App Control reports "GS Out" then consider it out - period.
Thats exactly how we had to get underneath the solid WX in Afghan, in order to drop into valley's at night when we were needed. Best know where you are, and whats underneath/ahead/to the immediate sides of you. Sporty indeed.....pucker factor increases as altitude decreases.
TXaviator
Well-Known Member
well the problem was that my friend only discovered his GS in the a/c was inop after takeoff and then he was relying on it to fly the approaches that were anticipated in preflight planning, and at that point it was already flown into a corner...
my friend thought he had plenty of plates to get himself where he needed to be....
note: this is also a statement of my friends' general displeasure at the scarcity of finding charts and plates at airports nowdays....
Goldmember
Well-Known Member
What, like you are going to discover instruments are broken only on the ground? And you took only approaches using a single instrument that if it failed, you are toast? Since charts are scarce, probably a good idea to print out more than just the ILS at your destination and Alternate. From the sounds of it, you didn't take an enroute chart? Because who knows, engine problems, unforecast storms/icing. What are you going to do if you have to shoot an approach at an airport that you DIDN'T plan on using? Fact is, this is the age of the internet, charts are not scarce, sportys.com for the sets. I'm not getting down on you, its just preflight planning in IFR is a lot more in depth and serious than a lot of people think.
Say "Hey approach, looks like we can't find the chart for that one. Can you read it to us, please?" and then fly the approach as read.
Crisis resolved.
-mini
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Use the VFR GPS as DME.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm always ready to shoot a GPS approach with a hand held if things get bad enough. If my options are "fly until you run out of gas, and hope you find a field" and "shoot a GPS approach with an unapproved GPS that is very likely just as accurate as the one in the panel," then I'm taking my chances with the GPS.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm always ready to shoot a GPS approach with a hand held if things get bad enough. If my options are "fly until you run out of gas, and hope you find a field" and "shoot a GPS approach with an unapproved GPS that is very likely just as accurate as the one in the panel," then I'm taking my chances with the GPS.
scooter2525
Very well Member
I'll be a gambling man...
shot? stat? spot. certainly spot.
I don't give a spot about notams.
scooter2525
Very well Member
///AMG
Well-Known Member
No self-contained fancy radar approach for you then? Most of our Hornet IP's have stories about letting themselves down into various overseas fields using AESA love
Strictly old school here, my friend. Works the first time, everytime. Unless I screw it up.
