AOPA Rod Machado article

[Roger, Roger]

Did anyone else read Rod Machado's article in the latest AOPA Pilot mag? Cliff's Notes: One thing we could do to improve student retention is cut some of the extra crap in syllabi and work on getting back to the days of the 10-hour student solo. I know we've had a few discussions about the topic on here, just thought it was interesting that Mr. Machado had written on the same topic.

 

[USMCmech]

Letourneau is considering a change away from G1000 C172s back to Decathalons for primary students. It will be intersting to see how that works out.

Personally I love the idea.

 

[Roger, Roger]

Letourneau is considering a change away from G1000 C172s back to Decathalons for primary students. It will be intersting to see how that works out.

Personally I love the idea.

REALLY?!?! That's freaking awesome!

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

I think sometimes we focus on the first solo too much. I try to explain that soloing is more than just being able to takeoff and land the airplane, as they are exercising their privileges as a pilot for the first time.

 

[amjon]

Did anyone else read Rod Machado's article in the latest AOPA Pilot mag? Cliff's Notes: One thing we could do to improve student retention is cut some of the extra crap in syllabi and work on getting back to the days of the 10-hour student solo. I know we've had a few discussions about the topic on here, just thought it was interesting that Mr. Machado had written on the same topic.

I don't think soloing at 10 hours is really going to help retain students (and don't most CFIs do that now anyway?). I think it is better to know more before you solo anyway. Soloing someone before they are 100% comfortable could backfire and MAKE them quit.

 

[swisspilot]

Letourneau is considering a change away from G1000 C172s back to Decathalons for primary students. It will be intersting to see how that works out.

Personally I love the idea.

Me too, when I did my training in the Airforce, we started flying gliders, then up to basic trainers (less then a PA28), the entire training before solo was focused on pitch and power, tons of 360 turns and stalls....was a really basic syllabus but focused on perfection.

 

[Hacker15e]

I think we should have everyone go back to aerobatic taildraggers as basic trainers and add basic aerobatics into the PPL syllabus.

 

[HeyEng]

I think most of it is a lot of instructors just don't have the passion... People are excited to learn to fly and when an instructor takes the fun out of it.... Well, there you go. I would live to know Rod's completion rate....I bet it's much better that the average!

Sent from my 1989 Motorola StarTAC using Tapatalk

 

[shdw]

Letourneau is considering a change away from G1000 C172s back to Decathalons for primary students. It will be intersting to see how that works out.

Personally I love the idea.

If the student can land a decathlon there isn't much they can't land. On the other hand, if they can land a 172...well I have nothing clever to complete this.

I don't know that I agree with going to a decathlon. However, I have, for a many years, believed tail draggers to be better primary training aircraft. The finess and understanding required in taildraggers far supersedes anything students could possibly be taught in todays typical trainers. My opinions of course.

Anyways, keep us posted USMC? I'd love to hear if this goes anywhere.

 

[TwoTwoLeft]

I think we should have everyone go back to aerobatic taildraggers as basic trainers and add basic aerobatics into the PPL syllabus.

Totally for it. I think every training airplane should be a light aerobatic taildragger.

BUT... To introduce aerobatic training into a private pilot syllabus you have to first focus on spin entry & recovery. First you need qualified instructors who don't crap their pants and take the controls every time their student lets a wing drop during a stall exercise. Next you need students willing to go through the spin, unusual attitude, & acro training. This isn't the military where either you perform or you're cut. There's plenty of good sticks out there who just cant handle it. Either they get sick or decide being upside-down is not for them. If anything, I'm in favor of practical spin recovery training to be part of the private syllabus. Completion standards should be maintaining orientation with a recovery on heading.

 

[MikeD]

Totally for it. I think every training airplane should be a light aerobatic taildragger.

BUT... To introduce aerobatic training into a private pilot syllabus you have to first focus on spin entry & recovery. First you need qualified instructors who don't crap their pants every time their student lets a wind drop during a stall exercise. Next you need students willing to go through the spin, unusual attitude, & acro training. This isn't the military where either you perform or you're cut. There's plenty of good sticks out there who just cant handle it. Either they get sick or decide being upside-down is not for them. If anything, I'm in favor of practical spin recovery training to be part of the private syllabus. Completion standards should be maintaining orientation with a recovery on heading.

I think we should wash people out of civilian flight training who aren't hacking it to standard, instead of keeping them on as professional students simply because they keep merrily paying the bill with a plethora of $$$; as some places I've seen do.

 

[Roger, Roger]

Interesting responses. Anyone else actually read the article? The fact that "back in the day" students were learning in taildraggers (which are more challenging to fly and land than the 172s and Cirri and whatever else we train in today) and still soloed in 10 or fewer hours (don't know where he got his numbers from) was part of the article.

 

[snoopy13]

Has anyone looked at 61.187(d) .... its a fairly lengthy list of pre-solo maneuvers and procedures. Is the emphasis on how many hours or knowledge and safety?

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

Letourneau is considering a change away from G1000 C172s back to Decathalons for primary students. It will be intersting to see how that works out.

I want to see what that does to costs. I can't imagine what the insurance company is going to say when the school tells them "Yeah, we're doing initial training in the Decathalons now". Only one way for the costs to go in that case, and its up (and probably a ton).

I think we should wash people out of civilian flight training who aren't hacking it to standard, instead of keeping them on as professional students simply because they keep merrily paying the bill with a plethora of $$$; as some places I've seen do.

So, would you support the same thing for drivers training then? I wouldn't mind seeing something about washing people out at the commercial level, but why should people get washed out at the private level?

 

[MikeD]

So, would you support the same thing for drivers training then? I wouldn't mind seeing something about washing people out at the commercial level, but why should people get washed out at the private level?

Because I've seen too many out there who don't have the hands, or the smarts, or the situational awareness, or the ability to multitask, or the ability to operate under pressure, etc, etc, etc; who are piloting planes, with some as forever-students. No one will tell them that they lack something or another and that they're likely a future NTSB docket number just waiting to be reserved, and in some cases are hazards to both themselves and everything in the air around them, birds included. I've seen students like this get either the "kick the can down the road" treatment by IPs or checkpilots who pass them with VERY wide latitude to the standards, or the "well, they're keeping $$$ coming in, so lets keep them flying". These students don't know what they don't know, don't know their limitations (which may be many), and no one is honest with them telling them "hey, this very well may not be for you."

 

[TwoTwoLeft]

I think we should wash people out of civilian flight training who aren't hacking it to standard, instead of keeping them on as professional students simply because they keep merrily paying the bill with a plethora of $$$; as some places I've seen do.

I don't hang on to students like that. They are as equally draining to my instructional enthusiasm as I am to their checking account. Its really sad the direction flying is going. Airmanship is out & the G1000 is in....We're in a day where we can open any "Flying" Magazine and a Stearman is a novelty and a Cirrus is the norm. Nothing personal to anyone out there, and I realize not everyone has taken advantage of the same opportunities that I've had. But a CFI who has flown nothing but a C172 (or anything other tricycle trainer that flies itself) can only teach what they know. We all know how badly you can fly a 172 and stay alive....

There recently was a new private pilot who came to our flight school looking to rent our 172. He left when he found out they were not G1000 equipped and deemed them "unsafe".

Dont get me wrong, I've taught in Cirrus, Diamonds, and other G1000/Avidyne equipped machines. The technology is great for IFR (but not necessary). The private certificate should be about stick & rudder airmanship and pilotage/DR navigation.

 

[USMCmech]

REALLY?!?! That's freaking awesome!

When I spoke with the Chief Instructor 2 weeks ago, he said that they were planning on testing it out next year.

They said that they have seen the same thing many of us have seen with the new glass pannel trainers, new students spend the first 3-4 hours learning to run the computer raher than learning to fly the plane. They have custom made curtins to cover everything up for the first few hours.

I don't know that I agree with going to a decathlon.

They have already been teaching in the Decathalon for quite some time, so they are working with what they already have on hand. Currently they do the tailwheel signoff right after PPL, so it shouldn't be a huge deal to solo a student in them.

 

[Roger, Roger]

When I spoke with the Chief Instructor 2 weeks ago, he said that they were planning on testing it out next year.

They said that they have seen the same thing many of us have seen with the new glass pannel trainers, new students spend the first 3-4 hours learning to run the computer raher than learning to fly the plane. They have custom made curtins to cover everything up for the first few hours.



They have already been teaching in the Decathalon for quite some time, so they are working with what they already have on hand. Currently they do the tailwheel signoff right after PPL, so it shouldn't be a huge deal to solo a student in them.

I think that it very well could work. After all, Back In The Day students were soloing aircraft like Cubs and Champs, and from what I understand those are in many ways harder to fly than a Citabria. As I understand it the Citabria (my only tailwheel flown) is pretty benign as taildraggers go.

 

[shdw]

They have already been teaching in the Decathalon for quite some time, so they are working with what they already have on hand. Currently they do the tailwheel signoff right after PPL, so it shouldn't be a huge deal to solo a student in them.

Well that is different then. I thought you meant purchasing a fleet of them. That seemed silly to me. Well I can't wait to see how it turns out if it gets off the ground.

 

[swisspilot]

When I spoke with the Chief Instructor 2 weeks ago, he said that they were planning on testing it out next year.

They said that they have seen the same thing many of us have seen with the new glass pannel trainers, new students spend the first 3-4 hours learning to run the computer raher than learning to fly the plane. They have custom made curtins to cover everything up for the first few hours.



They have already been teaching in the Decathalon for quite some time, so they are working with what they already have on hand. Currently they do the tailwheel signoff right after PPL, so it shouldn't be a huge deal to solo a student in them.

If I would go back I would sign to do my PPL at this place for sure!

I had an instructor from South Africa, he told me that in the PPL ckride they have to perform a spin recovery.....I think this would be a good idea in the US too.

Here in Brazil most of the flight schools use tailwheel planes for primary training, and CFIs have to take their ck ride in a tailwheel.....