chrisreedrules
Master Blaster
I think that is a great idea!
AOPA Article about Police/DHS/FBI overreach
- Thread starter SpiceWeasel
- Start date
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
There definitely needs to be an outreach to the local PD in areas that may generate calls. However, this needs to be done by the FBO owner or airport authority. I don't know how much joe blow pilot doing it would help.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Eh, with glider operations, there isn't generally an "owner" or really anyone in charge, for the most part. It would take a pilot taking the initiative for anything much to happen. The "Airport Authority" is often more of a political job, in my experience, it usually does not involve much actual knowledge of aviation other than collecting rents.
Low&Slow
Ancora imparo
We get aircraft overflying our plant EVERYDAY at all kinds of different altitudes and directions, but usually they look like ants in the sky, so they're probably up there pretty good. On a clear night, you can stand on the roof of the Turbine building and watch Airline traffic coming and going across the lake as they come into and out of ORD and MDW. Conditions have to be just right though, it's a BIG lake.
We also sometimes get small aircraft flying only a few hundred feet away and probably about 50' - 100' above the lake. That's usually only in the summer for some reason though. I don't know if anything ever happens to the pilots, but I don't think so because they keep coming back all summer.
We put bouys out so the fishermen and sport boaters know not to come any closer, but to my knowledge there's no mini-TFR over or around us.
We also sometimes get small aircraft flying only a few hundred feet away and probably about 50' - 100' above the lake. That's usually only in the summer for some reason though. I don't know if anything ever happens to the pilots, but I don't think so because they keep coming back all summer.
We put bouys out so the fishermen and sport boaters know not to come any closer, but to my knowledge there's no mini-TFR over or around us.
elmetal
Ain't nobody got time for that
are you suggesting they aren't allowed to be 50-100 feet off the lake?
Low&Slow
Ancora imparo
Nope, I'm not suggesting anything. Sorry if it came across like that, I'm just stating the facts.
Frankly, I don't care if they fly 50' directly over the plant, or skim the lake. I like watching them when they buzz by, it's like a private little airshow.
Sometimes you can even see the expression on the pilot's face.
Frankly, I don't care if they fly 50' directly over the plant, or skim the lake. I like watching them when they buzz by, it's like a private little airshow.
Sometimes you can even see the expression on the pilot's face.
elmetal
Ain't nobody got time for that
That must be exhilarating. I bet he's having a good time. Sometimes it's nice to hear that people are still having fun in aviation, we all get too bogged down with the negatives and forget that sometimes flying is just simply fun!
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
They only fly over the lake in the summer because the water is warm. You ditch in the lake in the winter and you have almost no odds of survival
In some cases you can get that low over the water but still have to watch your separation from people or objects. Depending on the Fed you could get slapped with 91.13 violation for careless and reckless of the aircraft. The aircraft should never be lower than 1000' above the power plant and the areas over the cooling towers should be avoid.
14 CFR 91.119 states
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
(d) Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface—
(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA; and
(2) A powered parachute or weight-shift-control aircraft may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (c) of this section.
Low&Slow
Ancora imparo
I'm not sure what the FAA definition of "congested" is, but I'm guessing the plant is in a "other than congested" area. There isn't anything but swamp and forest around the plant and Lake Michigan is directly to the west. We have deer and wild turkeys all over the friggin' place. Gotta drive slow and keep a sharp lookout so you don't hit any. The turkey tend to be more active in the day and the deer tend to be more active in the evening/night. Anyhow, I'm guessing that the aircraft over the lake often fly closer than 500 feet horizontally because they can get pretty close sometimes. Just so I'm clear, their flight path parallels the beach until they are past the plant, they don't ever fly toward it.
Also, on a side note, we don't have any cooling towers. We use the lake water to cool the plant and then discharge the hot water directly back into the lake. Admittedly, it's a somewhat unusual configuration, and it actually contributed to a long delay in getting an air-ambulance to pick up a couple of seriously burned electricians years ago.
The helicopter flew to Michigan City, Indiana because the crew saw the cooling towers at a plant down there and assumed that was our plant. Michigan City isn't really that far away from us and this was before GPS. The electricians were eventually sent to a burn unit via road ambulance.
They made it to the hospital, but succumbed to their injuries several days later. They were both burned over 80% though, so I don't know that the airlift would have made any difference to the outcome.
Also, on a side note, we don't have any cooling towers. We use the lake water to cool the plant and then discharge the hot water directly back into the lake. Admittedly, it's a somewhat unusual configuration, and it actually contributed to a long delay in getting an air-ambulance to pick up a couple of seriously burned electricians years ago.
The helicopter flew to Michigan City, Indiana because the crew saw the cooling towers at a plant down there and assumed that was our plant. Michigan City isn't really that far away from us and this was before GPS. The electricians were eventually sent to a burn unit via road ambulance.
They made it to the hospital, but succumbed to their injuries several days later. They were both burned over 80% though, so I don't know that the airlift would have made any difference to the outcome.
HuntFlyer
Well-Known Member
I think the AOPA story spotlights an important point. LEO's do not have the appropriate training to intervene and are completely unaware of the FAR's. As someone else mentioned, when the Chief puffed up about "non-compliance" it tells you everything you need to know. This story is an embarrassment and part of me wishes the guy hadn't agreed to have the charges dropped in exchange for not pursuing the matter against the department.
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
I agree but sometimes it is better to just walk away, you never know when some judge will want to legislate from the bench... Would like to see that department get some additional training.