Anyone here fly for Alpine Air?

I assume you are talking about Alpine Air Express that fly BE-99 and BE-1900?! I believe they are PFT....
 
tinman said:
You believe wrong.
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uhhh... this is straight off the Alpine Air website: (if this aint PFT, what is?)

Program Goal
To provide initial training and Federal Aviation Regulation (FAR) Part 135 Second-in-Command (SIC) qualification and certification. After pilot qualification, a temporary assignment on Alpine Air scheduled Part 135 Air Taxi route system for practical flight experience.

Prerequisites
FAA Commercial Multi-engine license with current instrument privileges. Second class Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) medical.

Visas
Non- U.S. Citizens not permitted due to the Department of Labor Regulations

Locations
Ground Training - Provo, Utah / Flight Training - Billings, Montana

Training Duration
Initial ground and flight qualification - 15 days. After qualification you will receive approximately six to eight months of actual flight experience (logged).

Flight Experience
The flight experience will be approximately 25-40 hours per month conducted under instrument flight rules (IFR). Duties include loading and unloading cargo.

Course Content
Ground Training - 10 days (64 hours with an additional sixteen hours of aircraft systems) includes initial company indoctrination and orientation, Crew Resource Management (CRM), Aeronautical Decision Making (ADM), routes, operations specifications, policies and procedures, aeronautical knowledge, regulations, etc.

Flight Training - 5 days (4-6 flight hours and a flight check). The practical experience will be given on the assigned operational route with a guarantee of 150 to 1000 hours of flight experience depending on the training block times contracted for.

Tuition Cost
Beech 99 aircraft: $19,100.00 (300 hour program) Beech 1900 aircraft: $27,100.00 (300 hour program)

All books, study materials, and facilities are included in the tuition cost. Tuition prices subject to change without notice. Rates available for 150 hours programs also.

Payments
$500.00 Class reservation fee - due with application.
Balance due upon arrival for training. Payment will be made by Certified Check, Money Order, Credit Card (Please note there will be a processing fee for Credit Cards).
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PFT in the true sense, is paying for training for a position that is required by the FAA. None of those positions are you required to be there. Think, "can the flight leave without you?", if it can, you are not required.
 
tinman said:
PFT in the true sense, is paying for training for a position that is required by the FAA. None of those positions are you required to be there. Think, "can the flight leave without you?", if it can, you are not required.
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by the looks of the website, it seems the only way to get a job there is to go through the ridiculous SIC training for $20-30 grand. what a joke. its totally PFT!
 
tinman said:
PFT in the true sense, is paying for training for a position that is required by the FAA. None of those positions are you required to be there. Think, "can the flight leave without you?", if it can, you are not required.
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The FAA might let the plane leave legal but the insurance might not and with revenue passengers in the back, paying them to be in that seat is totally PFT.
 
They are doing some hiring for their 99s that doesn't require any type of PFT matter of fact they will actually pay you to fly. Huh, imagine that, they can't find enough people to pay for the opportunity to fly and so the have to pay people to do it. The system works if we all screw our heads on straight and stop paying to work. Anyway, I think they wanted 135.243c mins and I sent them a resume. I was emailed immediatley and I told them I was interested in the Hawaii op. They sent my resume to the Hawaii ACP, I went to Hawaii on family vacation and called the ACP, he wasn't in, I left message he never called, I came home. I'm not sure how good an op they are to work for but DO NOT pay them for the chance to work!
 
You're buying the gas to put in the owners P-51 that he so arrogantly commutes to work in. So, maybe it's not pay for training. It may just be a pay for AvGas out of the sheer generosity of your over-abundant heart that you would so graciously provide for your employer's eccentricities and in return he teaches you to fly his planes.

There might be better ways of gaining experience.

On another note, and this is a legitimate question, is the SIC truly not required on these operations? How so? Are they operating with an autopilot in lieu of a second in command? Gosh in that case you would be an SIC-in-lieu-of-an-autopilot, an inauspicious position if ever there was one.

Relax! There are jobs for you out there. You do not need to settle for paying for anything in this market. Get your experience in a legitimate and respectable manner like flight instruction. Go fly freight when you get the hours. That experience will pay you dividends in your future. Be the best pilot you can be at what you are doing right now and the opportunities will develop. Good luck
 
For the kind of flying they do, you shouldn't be paying. It's tough. My friend's dad flew the B99 from Helena to Billings, he was almost never grounded. If you're gonna go the PFT route, Gulfstream's probably the smarter choice. BAD idea though.
 
blimpguy said:
You're buying the gas to put in the owners P-51 that he so arrogantly commutes to work in. So, maybe it's not pay for training. It may just be a pay for AvGas out of the sheer generosity of your over-abundant heart that you would so graciously provide for your employer's eccentricities and in return he teaches you to fly his planes.

There might be better ways of gaining experience.

On another note, and this is a legitimate question, is the SIC truly not required on these operations? How so? Are they operating with an autopilot in lieu of a second in command? Gosh in that case you would be an SIC-in-lieu-of-an-autopilot, an inauspicious position if ever there was one.

Relax! There are jobs for you out there. You do not need to settle for paying for anything in this market. Get your experience in a legitimate and respectable manner like flight instruction. Go fly freight when you get the hours. That experience will pay you dividends in your future. Be the best pilot you can be at what you are doing right now and the opportunities will develop. Good luck
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Unless they have pass. service that I am unaware of, it's all single pilot cargo. So in the ops spec, it will say something like the SIC is required when they show up for the flight(please everyone, it's written much more in detail, but that's the basic meaning:)). If they actually fly pass., please disregard my first couple of posts.


Now, in this day and age, you should be able to get a job without having to do this. But if someone wants to spend $20,000 to throw boxes, more power to'em, it's no skin off my back.
 
Alpine will hire you if you have the time. The SIC is worthless. Basically paying for flight time. They are a single pilot outfit no sic is required. As is NO auto pilot because they are cargo only. Most Metro's in the freight world are also APless. People that have to buy time welcome to the world of freight. I flew freight for 4 years to the same destinations as Alpine and knew some of their guys. What is the point of this thread. If you don't have atleast 1200TT then you are worthless in the cargo world. Operators barely keep planes flying legally they are not going to limit themselves to an SIC.
 
juxtapilot said:
If you're gonna go the PFT route, Gulfstream's probably the smarter choice. BAD idea though.
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That's the problem with lumping all the PFT together. Gulfstream is an example of what I was getting at by saying the true meaning of PFT. If you PFT at Gulfstream, that hurts the industry by paying for a seat that somebody should be getting paid to sit in. And guess what? If the FO is not in that seat, the flight can't go! So Gulfstream is NEVER a smarter choice, but a bad idea indeed.

Alpine=Gulfstream? No, very different beasts.(Again, unless Alpine is hauling pass., all I know of is the cargo ops.)
 
WalterSobchak said:
Alpine will hire you if you have the time. The SIC is worthless. Basically paying for flight time. They are a single pilot outfit no sic is required. As is NO auto pilot because they are cargo only. Most Metro's in the freight world are also APless. People that have to buy time welcome to the world of freight. I flew freight for 4 years to the same destinations as Alpine and knew some of their guys. What is the point of this thread. If you don't have atleast 1200TT then you are worthless in the cargo world. Operators barely keep planes flying legally they are not going to limit themselves to an SIC.
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I got the impression from looking at the website in the past that they do some passenger flying. I don't waste much time on their site as the whole concept of this company is an abomination to aviation.

On another note, are they involved in flying Shorts in Hawaii? Is that freight or passenger? I think it's cargo, now that I recall.
 
If you are required by the regs to be onboard...you should get paid. Don't pay $20,000 and essentially steal a paying job from an FO.
 
Rumor is they are pulling out of the islands and bringing everything back to the states. I heard they underbid every run in BIL to try and kick AMF out of BIL. UPS decided to sit on it and do some homework. With the price they charge for SIC time they can underbid everything. But than again its just all rumors.
 
cfii2007 said:
If you are required by the regs to be onboard...you should get paid. Don't pay $20,000 and essentially steal a paying job from an FO.
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Not stealing from an FO that is required to be there. They are single pilot. Any one who pays is just a sucker thats all.
 
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