"Any Traffic, Please Advise"

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KingAir

KingAir

Well-Known Member
I'm on a Crusade.
FAA AIM 4-1-9, ". Self-Announce Position and/or Intentions 1. General. Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF. This procedure is used primarily at airports which do not have an FSS on the airport. The self-announce procedure should also be used if a pilot is unable to communicate with the FSS on the designated CTAF. Pilots stating, "Traffic in the area, please advise" is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition." It also states, "Proper phraseology is the mark of professionalism"


Yet I hear pro pilots saying it all the time. Case in point, the other day I was forced to listen to a couple of Flexjet drivers make at least eight position reports all of which ended with "Any traffic in the area, please advise". At one point they even added " Any traffic in the area please advise type, position, altitude and intentions."


This is why it matters, this particular uncontrolled airport's CTAF is 122.8, which is also used by about Ten other airport within the radio reception area, meaning that sometimes you can't get a word in edgewise even when your not dealing with this phrase.



I understand that some pilots aren't that familiar with uncontrolled airport operations, but the funny thing is, the aircraft that you really need to be worried about Don't even have radios i.e., Piper Cubs, Homebuilts, Ultralights, or the student pilot who forgot to turn the volume up after his instructor got out.



Use more of your eyes and ears and less of your mouth, and it will be safer for all of us.
 
Professionalism is one thing, but who cares when you're flying into uncontrolled KBFE (not Terry County Airport - the metaphorical one) and no one is on the radio? I think the failed assumption here is that by asking other traffic to advise, that you're doing that because you're not scanning or otherwise paying attention.

I see your point, particularly when the radio is busy, but I'm not sure this is a hill worth dying on.
 
KingAir said:
Use more of your eyes and ears and less of your mouth, and it will be safer for all of us.
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Not so easy to do when you are flying a pattern at 220 knots in a restricted visibility aircraft.

I agree, it's not necessary, but honestly... why do you care?
 
KingAir said:
I'm on a Crusade.
FAA AIM 4-1-9, ". Self-Announce Position and/or Intentions 1. General. Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF. This procedure is used primarily at airports which do not have an FSS on the airport. The self-announce procedure should also be used if a pilot is unable to communicate with the FSS on the designated CTAF. Pilots stating, "Traffic in the area, please advise" is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition." It also states, "Proper phraseology is the mark of professionalism"


Yet I hear pro pilots saying it all the time. Case in point, the other day I was forced to listen to a couple of Flexjet drivers make at least eight position reports all of which ended with "Any traffic in the area, please advise". At one point they even added " Any traffic in the area please advise type, position, altitude and intentions."


This is why it matters, this particular uncontrolled airport's CTAF is 122.8, which is also used by about Ten other airport within the radio reception area, meaning that sometimes you can't get a word in edgewise even when your not dealing with this phrase.



I understand that some pilots aren't that familiar with uncontrolled airport operations, but the funny thing is, the aircraft that you really need to be worried about Don't even have radios i.e., Piper Cubs, Homebuilts, Ultralights, or the student pilot who forgot to turn the volume up after his instructor got out.



Use more of your eyes and ears and less of your mouth, and it will be safer for all of us.
Click to expand...

Meh, personally, I've said it. Sometimes its useful in places that are filled with local yokels who won't necessarily say anything until you get their attention. It also helps while you're taxiing out to say something like, "hey, anybody up?" because if you're at an airport (like PAGS) that has extensive local traffic and highly localized reporting points, a "sure, I'm over the Porpoises at 1500, you've got plenty of time" is way more informative than some arbitrary distance and direction. I use things that "work." When it warrants it, I'll say it, most of the time it doesn't warrant it. But in certain circumstances - like departing an uncontrolled field in the middle of the night - something like, "BFE traffic, Freighter 123 is getting ready to depart 36, anyone inbound?" might jar the other sleepy freightdog out of his sleep deprived stupor and cause him to take heed. Especially if you're blasting off VFR to pick up a clearance in the air. Just sayin'. In fact, I'll admit to it, I say and have said a lot o things that aren't "standardized" because sometimes the situations don't fit standardization all that well. Especially if clarification is required. A "uh, yeah, let's go over this step by step, I'm unfamiliar" has saved my certs a time or two. Just sayin'.
 
It's a good way to supplement your scan for other traffic. I know people (including myself) who fly into uncontrolled airports with radios who choose not to use them because they know how to scan for other traffic.

If I hear someone asking for traffic in the area to advise then I'll chime in and participate since it does increase safety regardless of how unprofessional it may be.




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i dont like it, but theres other things i dislike even more... example: atc asks a pilot in front of me to say speed and the dumbass gives his groundspeed instead of IAS.... this seems to happen a lot out here in the caribbean.
 
I'd like to play devil's advocate here for a minute. I try not to ask traffic to advise because I've read threads like this one. That said, we frequently fly into nontowered airports with very little if any turbine aircraft traffic.

I'm entering your traffic pattern at 3 to 4 miles per minute, very likely 2 or 3 times faster than any GA traffic that might be in the pattern. I may not be entering on 45 degrees to the downwind either. Even if we're flying a "visual" approach we've likely got instrument guidance up whether it be an RNAV approach or otherwise and are following that, especially if we're unfamiliar with the airport.

Inbound i'm talking with center and listening to 122.8 on #2. You're right, there are typically 10 airports on that frequency and i'm trying to pick out of all of that chatter which traffic is actually at the airport WE'RE going to ... all while trying to get set up for the approach, continuing to talk to center etc.

We want to try and plan to integrate into your traffic pattern if there are airplanes working there. That takes a little fancy footwork since we can't realistically do so by adjusting speed. So having a good idea of where everyone is in the pattern, what speed they may be operating at, and what their intentions are can help us to formulate a plan. Remember, we're not doing touch and goes here... we want to get in, on the ground, and out of your way as fast as possible.

Try to help us help you and to understand a little bit of the environment we are operating in.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
I'd like to play devil's advocate here for a minute. I try not to ask traffic to advise because I've read threads like this one. That said, we frequently fly into nontowered airports with very little if any turbine aircraft traffic.

I'm entering your traffic pattern at 3 to 4 miles per minute, very likely 2 or 3 times faster than any GA traffic that might be in the pattern. I may not be entering on 45 degrees to the downwind either. Even if we're flying a "visual" approach we've likely got instrument guidance up whether it be an RNAV approach or otherwise and are following that, especially if we're unfamiliar with the airport.

Inbound i'm talking with center and listening to 122.8 on #2. You're right, there are typically 10 airports on that frequency and i'm trying to pick out of all of that chatter which traffic is actually at the airport WE'RE going to ... all while trying to get set up for the approach, continuing to talk to center etc.

We want to try and plan to integrate into your traffic pattern if there are airplanes working there. That takes a little fancy footwork since we can't realistically do so by adjusting speed. So having a good idea of where everyone is in the pattern, what speed they may be operating at, and what their intentions are can help us to formulate a plan. Remember, we're not doing touch and goes here... we want to get in, on the ground, and out of your way as fast as possible.

Try to help us help you and to understand a little bit of the environment we are operating in.
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I kind of understand your position. However, what irritates me is when someone is calling 40+miles out (BFE traffic, Citation 12345, 40 mile final, runway 9, ATITAPA), and then they call, with the EXACT SAME CALL, every 5 miles. At 3-4 miles per minute, they barely get one out before they're saying it again, and putting ATITAPA on EVERY SINGLE TRANSMISSION.

As far the people who aren't answering radio calls unless they hear someone say ATITAPA, come on... if you are flying into BFE, and you hear someone on the radio flying into BFE, give a quick call. Even if you know how to scan, it enhances safety to use the radio, and them saying ATITAPA shouldn't be the impetus that gets you to answer any more than hearing the airport's name is.
 
I completely understand zaps position...I start at 15, then 10, then 3. I'm doing 200 until 10 where we start to slow. I have had to continue that until someone finally wakes up and answers...OH I'm on the downwind... or just taking the runway (the opposite direction...LOL... that one is always fun)
msmspilot said:
I kind of understand your position. However, what irritates me is when someone is calling 40+miles out (BFE traffic, Citation 12345, 40 mile final, runway 9, ATITAPA), and then they call, with the EXACT SAME CALL, every 5 miles. At 3-4 miles per minute, they barely get one out before they're saying it again, and putting ATITAPA on EVERY SINGLE TRANSMISSION.

As far the people who aren't answering radio calls unless they hear someone say ATITAPA, come on... if you are flying into BFE, and you hear someone on the radio flying into BFE, give a quick call. Even if you know how to scan, it enhances safety to use the radio, and them saying ATITAPA shouldn't be the impetus that gets you to answer any more than hearing the airport's name is.
Click to expand...
 
This radio call gets on my nerves. But it gets on my nerves like people who say "ill be there momentarily." It's wrong but it doesn't make me want to punch them in the face. Who cares. It bothers me for a second then I forget about it. Nothing worth a crusade. This is one of the small things that people tell us not to sweat.
 
Bumblebee said:
I completely understand zaps position...I start at 15, then 10, then 3. I'm doing 200 until 10 where we start to slow. I have had to continue that until someone finally wakes up and answers...OH I'm on the downwind... or just taking the runway (the opposite direction...LOL... that one is always fun)
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So then what do you do with planes without radios? God forbid a NORDO plane get in the pattern with you.
 
BobDDuck said:
Not so easy to do when you are flying a pattern at 220 knots in a restricted visibility aircraft.
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Eh?

I wasn't aware that the responsibility to use visual lookout was relative to the amount of window you have and the speed at which you're in the terminal area.
 
Far worse than the "any traffic" thing, is the:

"XXX traffic, N123 5 miles north for landing, going to enter a left downwind for RW5"

"Hey Jed, is that you???"

"Yeah! Who's this?!?"

"Billy Bob here man, how you doing brother?!?! Where you comin in from?"

etc, etc, etc and non-stop.
 
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