Any opinions on importance of turbine PIC?

Cruise

Cruise

Well-Known Member
Just wondering what other thought about the importance of turbine PIC for the advancement of one's career.

The reason I ask, is that I have interviews coming up with both Colgan and ASA.

The Colgan upgrade time is hovering right around 1 year at the moment. The detractor, they only fly turboprops. Also a chance you'd get the Beech 1900 which isn't even cabin class. So, as the FO, you're also the FA
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I've heard that some don't even consider the 1900 quality turbine time, is this true???

At ASA, they only fly the CRJ but upgrade time is closer to 4 years. You'd be in a jet, but sitting SIC for years. At Colgan, you'd have a ton of PIC time and could potentially move on to bigger equipment considerably sooner.

Both companies seem like excellent places to work. With many airlines hiring, including some majors, what is the best avenue to advance one's career? Race off to get PIC as quickly as possible, or sit SIC in a jet for years before even logging a single hour of PIC?

Also, would you include the avenue you took to get where you are now, and why you chose that route.

I know this has been discussed before; but, I was hoping to get current opinions.
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It's a big decision and I realize I must make it on my own....but I would like it to be the most informed decision possible.
 
it depends what airline you look to upgrage too. some airlines say that your turbine PIC has to be in an aircraft over a certain weight, which i believe is heavier than a 1900. but then some don't.
 
The 1900 isn't a cabin class? News to me.

Turbine PIC is golden ... whether the turbine swings a prop or shoots hot gas out the back its all turbine PIC. Individual airlines may have policies differentiating between turbo-props or pure-turbines, but turbine PIC is STLL turbine PIC. It shows that you were in command of a turbine aircraft, most likely, in a 121 operation and that is what most airlines re looking for: future captains.

Worse case scenario take the Colgan job get a few years as PIC and if the airine you want to goto doesn't like that you don't have jet time go take a job at some random regional flying RJs and get 1,000 hours or so of SIC jet time.
 
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Both companies seem like excellent places to work

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They do? I won't start a Colgan bashfest but I've heard otherwise, as for ASA it seems as though they have alot of angst among their pilot group with contract issues and work rules. That being said...

Colgan does have cabin class Saabs which I'm sure even if you got the 1900 initially you could move into soon enough. Is turbine PIC important, yes. Is total time important, Yes. Is having an ATP important, yes. It depends where you want to go. If you want to go to Southwest then having a 737 type is important.

What I'm getting at is that many of the majors and low cost carrier have different criteria for their applicationes. With respect to your colgan question some do require that the time you have is in aircraft larger than a 1900. Others make no distinction.

So maybe Colgan is the fastest way to advance, but many many before you and I have gone there and bailed.
 
In today's market, jet time experience is probably more valuable than turboprop time to the interviewer simply because that's the type of applicant the airlines can get nowadays.

When I was coming up the ladder commuters only flew small to medium size turboprops while some were still flying piston twins. Heck, Comair was still flying Bandits and Navajos! Except for those individuals coming out of the military, very few applicants had pure jet time. For now, things have changed considerably. Not only are the "commuters" (Regional airlines) flying jets, they also have glass cockpits that rival just about anything the majors are currently flying including FMC's, Vnav, GPS, ACARS etc. This makes for a huge pool of highly qualified and experienced applicants from pure jet ops to choose from when hiring resumes.

The time line you mentioned really means nothing in this volatile and ever changing field of airline flying. It's very hard to time the market. 1 year upgrades can turn to 5 year upgrades overnight and visa versa. 5 year upgrades to the left seat of a jet mean nothing if the company goes out of business in 4. It tough making long term life decisions based on info that's only good short term.

My advice...When you're just starting out, go with the airline that is willing to give you a job offer regardless of what equipment they fly or upgrade times. If you have multiple job offers consider yourself one of the very lucky few. Don't be in such a hurry or concerned about "upgrade" times. It's a complicated environment we operate in and airplanes are becoming even more complicated pieces of machinery. Most of what I know about flying in an airline environment I didn't learn in a book. I learned from folks much more experienced and knowledgeable than I who took the time to teach me even if it took them beating it into me!
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This took years, not months to absorb and be able to apply to real world scenarios on a daily basis and I'm sure I gave a few Captains more than a few gray hairs at times. Even after 18 years of flying jets, my skill/knowledge (or lack thereof) is sometimes tested to the limits.

New applicants to Regional airlines have to know more, think faster and work generally harder than I ever had to. Personally, I kinda like the thought of at least 5 years (or more) to upgrade times in something like an RJ.

Sometimes making career decisions is nothing more than a crap shoot. Best line I heard when asked if an individual thought they made the right decision about his aviation career was..."Ask me when I'm 60".
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Thank you all for the posts. This is exactly the type of commentary I am looking for.

Trying to gain insight from those more experienced than me. Furthermore, I appreciate your time.

Please keep 'em coming!
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The time line you mentioned really means nothing in this volatile and ever changing field of airline flying...

My advice...When you're just starting out, go with the airline that is willing to give you a job offer regardless of what equipment they fly or upgrade times. If you have multiple job offers consider yourself one of the very lucky few.

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First things first... apply to both, then worry about where to go when you've been offered a job at both. In this industry the long term forecast is tomorrow afternoon. Upgrade times can definitely change rapidly, and from what I've heard from the rumor mill is that a lot of the regionals that were hiring like crazy at the start of the year are beginning to slow their growth, which means that upgrade times will go up anyway.

The Colgan guys that I ran into said that they're working 7 or 8 leg days with short overnights
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. I wouldn't want that many legs, trust me 6 leg days are hard enough.

Turbine PIC is important, but most of the captains that I know at Eagle who have X,000 hours of turbine PIC time are still having a hard time getting jobs elsewhere. You asked why we chose the company we chose: they called me and offered me a job and I wasn't competitve enough to turn them down and go elsewhere
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Honest truth, if I had to pick between a turboprop job and a jet job, the type of equipment would be the last thing I looked at. The only airline I can think of off the top of my head that places a weight restriction on their turbine PIC requirements is jetBlue. I know a lot of SWA FOs and CAs that got their turbine time to meet the reqs in Caravans at Mountain Air Cargo.

If it were me, I'd go with the company that seems like it's going to be the most stable in the near future. I'd like to say grab Colgan for the fast upgrade, but like was mentioned earlier, that could change in a hearbeat. It's fine line between staying at a regional for a couple of years, getting the turbine PIC and moving on and getting stuck there.

Bottom line, I wouldn't take a job b/c it's a jet over a TP. Besides, I'd kinda like to tell my grandkids I flew TPs before they were extinct.
 
Go for the quickest route to PIC turbine, hands down. And for whoever told you the 1900 is not "quality" turbine time, they haven't a clue what they are talking about. You're gonna make squat your first year at either carrier. PIC Turbine opens doors and rounds out the resume alot quicker than thousands of hours of SIC RJ time will do. Get your PIC time, atleast 1,000....better 1,500. Then see what jobs you can get. If you can't get the bigger nationals / majors to look at you, then go to a regional and be content sitting in the right seat, knowing you have the PIC box checked.

I have buds who are '01/'02 hires at ASA that are still in the right seat.

Plus, flying the 1900 in the Northeast in the winter with no A/P will make you the sharpest instrument pilot you can be.

If Colgan hires you, I'd take it.....

Don't let the "Shiny Jet Syndrome" strike you.
 
I would first go with whoever offers a job first. Colgan also has Saabs. Try and get the Saab if you can. 121 Turbine PIC is golden and the sooner you can get it the better. Most employers know that Turboprops require more work to fly and take that into consideration during hiring and consider it good time. As far as the B1900 goes I have heard varying opinions on if it counts or not. Just remember those are opinions.

When picking an employer you should consider the:

Turn Over Rate
Work Rules
Upgrade Time
Pay
Equipment Type
 
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